Does the engine have to be mounted on the transon?

[f8andbethere]

Just curious -- does the engine have to mounted on the "transom" of a hydroplane? Could it be mounted on a "transom" or mounting point on the sponson if one so desired?
thanks f8

[hydroplay]

In general the answer to your question is that there is no specified location for the engine for outboard hydroplanes. Stock and Modified categories have remained mostly free in hydroplane specs and let innovations and functions control the design. The PRO category is far less tolerant of new ideas and designs and has a history of implimenting new rules to deal with innovative hull designs to preserve the status quo and vested interest of some members. While they do not presently control engine location, I would give even money that they would outlaw it in the next year if you convincingly waxed them. Remember the Russian hydro-cats?

That being said, since hydroplane design has been evolving for 70 years, it probably isn't an accident that the engine is at the rear. The dynamics of the thrust vector of the prop at this location is important but weight distribution and center of gravity considerations are also vital. Start moving the motor 5 feet forward and see what it does to the center of gravity.

[f8andbethere]

mounting engine on sponson

In general the answer to your question is that there is no specified location for the engine for outboard hydroplanes. Stock and Modified categories have remained mostly free in hydroplane specs and let innovations and functions control the design. The PRO category is far less tolerant of new ideas and designs and has a history of implimenting new rules to deal with innovative hull designs to preserve the status quo and vested interest of some members. While they do not presently control engine location, I would give even money that they would outlaw it in the next year if you convincingly waxed them. Remember the Russian hydro-cats?

That being said, since hydroplane design has been evolving for 70 years, it probably isn't an accident that the engine is at the rear. The dynamics of the thrust vector of the prop at this location is important but weight distribution and center of gravity considerations are also vital. Start moving the motor 5 feet forward and see what it does to the center of gravity.

Thanks for the info. Let me just pose the following. I agree with you that CG, both rotational and longitudinal is critical to performance. So if we swap the weight between the driver the motor -- that is put the motor where the driver use to be and put the driver in a go-kart position where the motor use to be, then a goodly part of that problem is resolved.

It seems to me that this then allows for higher performance to turn the boat and it would also allow you to really run a capsule in an outboard boat and belt the driver in which is infinitely safer than current configurations.

f8

[sam]

How would the driver see over the motor without raising the center of gravity (driver sitting in a booster seat) even higher than it already is?

How would a rear seating cell be superior to a laydown (cocoon) cell (other than higher vision, which may be compromised by additional spray anyway)? On a PRO boat you'd also have the issue of the pipe spewing into the driver's face or hanging out the side creating drag.

Your theoretical improved turning would depend on shorter sponson to motor/fin length being better. My guess is if this were so, boats would already have longer pickleforks and shorter sponson to transom lengths or highly notched-in transoms and very long afterplanes.

Another issue you have omitted ... the weight of the cell. You are not only switching the position of the driver and motor, you are adding a cell. By the time you add the weight of the cell, in order to have a similar center of fore/aft weight, the driver and cell will have to be on top of the motor (or so close it might as well be).

I think you are basically inventing the inboard

[Bill Blackwell]

Hello F8,

If you have an idea, I'd say try it. If it weren't for people like you thinking outside the box, what would our race boats look like today? I'm not one to stifle creativity or innovation.

At the same time, Hydroplay's comment about the design's we have that have evolved via the race course are true and a result of multiple iterations. So, don't expect to set speed records right off the bat. I guess it all depends on what you want out your ideas and experimentation.

Regarding the driver (and cell) and engine location, the driver is the largest percentage of mass for all the outboard classes and the current configurations put the driver at or forward of the c/g. Switching the engine and driver would relocate the c/g so your design would have to accomodate this.

I once built an experimental. When I showed up at a race, people wouldn't pit next to me as if I had the plague. That is, until I came in with a first place. Don't get me wrong, my experimental got plenty of last place finishes too. It was the testing and exerimenting that I enjoyed. That's why I did it.

I'd say, don't worry about the rules. Just do it. Unless you win the Nationals or set a speed record, the rules will remain as they are. And the rules, as they are don't say anything about outboard placement.

BRB - Fast boats built slow.

[f8andbethere]

engine mounted on the sponson

How would the driver see over the motor without raising the center of gravity (driver sitting in a booster seat) even higher than it already is?

How would a rear seating cell be superior to a laydown (cocoon) cell (other than higher vision, which may be compromised by additional spray anyway)? On a PRO boat you'd also have the issue of the pipe spewing into the driver's face or hanging out the side creating drag.

Your theoretical improved turning would depend on shorter sponson to motor/fin length being better. My guess is if this were so, boats would already have longer pickleforks and shorter sponson to transom lengths or highly notched-in transoms and very long afterplanes.

Another issue you have omitted ... the weight of the cell. You are not only switching the position of the driver and motor, you are adding a cell. By the time you add the weight of the cell, in order to have a similar center of fore/aft weight, the driver and cell will have to be on top of the motor (or so close it might as well be).

I think you are basically inventing the inboard

Thanks for your input.
I guess it is always fascinating to me to see how many people point out how something can not work and how many come up with ideas on how to make something work.

With respect to laydown hydros I would agree that this is perhaps the best solution other than the fact that if you blow one over you still get pitched out of the boat and when this happens there are four things that can happen to you and three of them are REALLY bad.

And yes you are correct, perhaps I am reinventing the inboard -- but so what. If it goes fast and wins races it could look like queen latifa's rear and folks would be scrambling to get one.

f/8

[Freedom Fighter]

Never Let Anybody Steel Your DREAM!!

F8,

I agree with Mr. Blackwell. When a persons comes up with an Idea or trys something out of the ordinary they always get resistance.

I would recomend reading the book "The Majic of Thinking Big". You may have heard this, but Henry Ford told his Engineers to design a V-8 engine. And the engineers told him it could not be done. Seems pretty stupid now days.

So Go for it! And expect alot of ridicule and negative from the dream stealers. What I have learned to do in the last few years is, when someone says, "that will never work, or why would you want to do that, or we have never done it that way, etc. etc. I say, "Why do you want to steel my dream!" or better yet, "DREAM STEALER!"

People will snicker at you, talk behind your back, but you just need to develope the "Dominant Mind", or what some people call the "Combat Mindset".

No statue has ever been erected to a negative person or a dream stealer.

Dreamers change the world.

One thing about it when you finish your project you will have more knowledge, fail or succeed, than me and everyone else who has not done what you have done.

Life is like weight lifting, no resistance, no results. Most of the time when there is resistance you are on the right track.

You may learn something by doing this project that will apply to another area of life and allow you to succeed in that area beyound where most people are.

Some of the best "speed secrets" I learned were from a Banker, yes Banker, who knew nothing about boat racing when he started. Some of these speed secrets had nothing to do directly with boat racing, but when applied to the hulls and engines worked great.

You have the freedom to fail! Which gives you the freedom to suceed beyond your wildest dreams.

Take care, enjoy, have fun, and remember,

DON'T LET ANYBODY STEAL YOUR DREAM!