A Plan that WILL work

[Matt Dagostino]

Right On...........

My answer here is: Get him into a heavier, safer, better-riding boat; add a $27 restrictor plate from TJ; add a couple of weenie weights; and run him in 20SSH.

And if the new-comer wants to pull the restrictor and throw in some lead he/she now has a CSH ride with the same 302 rig!! I believe this would be a true "Value Proposition" as Dean likes to say.............i call it a lot of bang for your buck!

It truly is a shame our Stock Outboard division classes have become so 'fractured' over the last few decades and regionalized..........while i agree conceptually with Dean's presentation i think the short term heartache for member clubs and several members it will cause forced me to say no.

In talking to Dan and Max Acernio who are new to our sport, class structure was not their main issue when they came into our sport a couple years ago. The fact was Dan's son Max went to a local boat race and liked "boat racing' and then Luce and others on Long Island guided him into classes that were popular in his area..........

So while it would be cool to get back to A, B, C, D i am not convinved it should be our first priority but is just one piece of our broken system.

I wished Dean would have focused more on MHRA's driving school to the SORC. I have been active with the Shane's over the last few years with the J Program set up by the Historical Society and the Inboard Division and have been re-vitialized by the hope this program has given to growing our sport from the bottom up. Dean's driving school is on the same path and these are the avenues that what will SLOWLY grow our sport. I doubt Facebook, Social Networking, U-Tube and all that other computer crap will do much. While these forms of exposure are nice to have out there; they in my opinion are a secondary source of growing membership.

The APBA dumping $140,000 into OPC/style spec boats to me is a joke........Hearn and Dean should be lobbying APBA for monies to support MHRA style schools and Demo rigs like Matt Gallager from DVORA in New Jersey referenced for his potential new member. Growing APBA racing members from the bottom up seems to make more sense than looking for the next Bill Muncy with 'big boats'. Getting our product in front of the public in person is the ticket. I am afraid growth has been and will continue to be done one person at a time. Programs like what Shane and Dean are spearheading and committing there time to is what i see as productive and should be pursued aggresively...........

At the end of the day we (SORC) allocated Dean and MHRA $2100 from the SORC budget to buy a 302 engine to help prepare a rig for use at the school... i would have liked to seen that number tripled and defered filming the Wakefield Nationals for $6000 and selling discs back to ourselves??????? I believe MHRA's school would net us more results than a video!

And for those that read these Hydroracer snippets and do not sit in on the 3 days of meetings we lament through,many things get lost in the translation. Chairman Hearn conducts meetings in a orderly fashion and by roberts rules which sometimes rubs certain people the wrong way but he runs a organized fair meeting. Ed actually allowed Dean pleanty of room to operate into Saturday and once all the smoke cleared guided the Commission into 'working out' Dean's idea Saturday and helping him word the motion for the upcoming ballot.

Later

[Kev43V]

Dean, sell them the real world. Buy a 3k rig and some kevlar and a trailer. Tell them both kids can drive for that money. Until they become better drivers they will not win anyway so buy the best equipment for one class you can afford. This will save them the most money in the long run. The second class is a bonus. Stop selling 2 classes with one price... sell one price gets the whole family involved. Tell them you first have to beat today's last place then today's 5th place and that is how you move up. You can not buy skill behind the wheel. If this is not true... I have good starts for sale at the low price of 3 for $100.

Sell the moms that their kids will come home every summer to boat race forever!

Sell the Dads they get to work on motors!

Sell the kids they get to crash stuff! Always Be Closing.

You said that very well Brian!

BTW do those starts come with a remote for the clock??...

[ram95]

This is exactly the time to promote our sport. This recession has caused a lot of people to take a hard look at what they do with their kids and themselves. Trouble is, a lot of people have no idea "boat racing" (as we here know it) even exists.

That being said, we need to appeal to people who still have jobs and be real careful about recruiting people who really can't afford our sport.

[bill hoctor]

S o r c

Matt.. Excellant report to few masses we have left. You are so dead on the 140.000 fiasco OPC and the reval. boat that came apart at the WORLDS, let alone the $6 g's for a tape,When are we gona see the light!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bill

[Big Don]

It's a CD not a tape. My kids remind me of that all the time...they also ask me what albums are.

[HRTV]

This is exactly the time to promote our sport. This recession has caused a lot of people to take a hard look at what they do with their kids and themselves. Trouble is, a lot of people have no idea "boat racing" (as we here know it) even exists.

That being said, we need to appeal to people who still have jobs and be real careful about recruiting people who really can't afford our sport.

Read a few of these post then come back and re-post, most of the guys here at HRNET are old racing vets. Take a listen to what real young families are going through.

http://community.thenest.com/cs/ks/f.../47322544.aspx

[csh2z]

It ALL has to be done. The schools, the internet marketing and the product improvement. One without the other two will be useless.

[csh2z]

Internet marketing will help tremendously to attract many people to boat racing. I would think out of the multiple millions of people on the internet in this country, we should get at least a couple hundred interested enough to research the sport. We only need a couple dozen new names a year to consider it a success. But, our product right now is a convoluted mess. We need a steering(OOPS) Advisory Committee to help define a plan for the short term and long term future of the sport, so people can make an educated decision for their racing program. And the Advisory Board or whatever, needs to be a continous part of our structure to maintain consistancy from one commission to the next.

[csh12M]

$13K not bad

I agree that $13K is not that bad, but as someone who is selling this $10k would be better

All I am trying to point out is that we could help ourselves in some areas. The last time we grew, the A motor and J motor were the same and a $25 dollar restrictor plate allowed you to change! We need to do that again! Whether it is this year next year or 2014. This is an easy no brainer, especially with the advent of ASX classes. The J, AX, and A motors need all be the same and just separated by restrictors. Imagine explaining it to a new guy if it was like that....easy peasy buy the motor change the restrictor as your kids grow. If you have to kids own one rig race both classes with a 5 minute change. We know the answers to a lot of these problems, we just don't act on them.

$13,000 to get the family racing?
Yes, it is a lot of money, and yes the economy does having people hunkering down and holding on, but really?

Is $13,00 so bad?
I mean really, how much should it cost for 2-3 boats, motors, life jackets, helmets, couple of props, a trailer? Enough stuff to have Dad and 2 kids race ready?

How much cheaper can you get it? At what price do you say if you can't afford this, then you can't afford this?

I'm speaking for myself here, but seems to me if you really have a "Jones" to race, then you will find a way. And if you don't? well, the ratio of work to result probably won't keep you racing for long anyway.

Consider horses,... as a hobby, it is growing by leaps and bounds. Lots of familes riding and showing horses together...and it's kind of a niche like boat racing, huge learning curve, takes years to get somewhere in it, folks don't just go out and in a couple of years start winning events, a high percentage of people who lose interest in a couple of years, and costs?...Forgetabouit.

Easy to spend 13K on just one competitive horse, often, a lot more...trailer? yup, and you wont be finding that for $700.00, saddles, tack, hell, a good hat is gonna run a couple hundred bucks...

Plus, with horses, you're not going to find other competitors helping you out like boat racers do...no, you need a trainer at at least $700 a month to get your horse where you need him to be untill you get skilled enough to do it yourself.

I'm not trying to sound like some wealthy guy, but... There is a price that has to be paid to do stuff like this.

I'm not so sure that the cost of entry to boat racing is that out of line, in fact, it seems like a bargain really....Just my opinion.

[csh12M]

One piece to the puzzle....

Hello Matt,

Totally agree with what you are saying here. Racer School, by itself wont fix the problem, Class Structure by itself wont fix the problem, Internet exposure, by itself wont fix the problem, but all of them working together might.

Racer School works for hooking, we have that part figured out. Racer School is why I started on this next class quest. When Racer School ends the selling part begins. Additionally I am starting to look and and worry about retention. Our original Racer School members are now three season in....the excitement of the ride has worn off, they now are good starters and nail one once in a while, but they still end up at the back of the pack. Those $3,500 "deal" rigs just don't run at the front. A few of these kids are 16-18 now and I see the "risk" of them getting bored.

I spoke with Ed today about trying to attack that problem next, but that is a subject for another time and thread. More to come......

Thanks,
Dean

And if the new-comer wants to pull the restrictor and throw in some lead he/she now has a CSH ride with the same 302 rig!! I believe this would be a true "Value Proposition" as Dean likes to say.............i call it a lot of bang for your buck!

It truly is a shame our Stock Outboard division classes have become so 'fractured' over the last few decades and regionalized..........while i agree conceptually with Dean's presentation i think the short term heartache for member clubs and several members it will cause forced me to say no.

In talking to Dan and Max Acernio who are new to our sport, class structure was not their main issue when they came into our sport a couple years ago. The fact was Dan's son Max went to a local boat race and liked "boat racing' and then Luce and others on Long Island guided him into classes that were popular in his area..........

So while it would be cool to get back to A, B, C, D i am not convinved it should be our first priority but is just one piece of our broken system.

I wished Dean would have focused more on MHRA's driving school to the SORC. I have been active with the Shane's over the last few years with the J Program set up by the Historical Society and the Inboard Division and have been re-vitialized by the hope this program has given to growing our sport from the bottom up. Dean's driving school is on the same path and these are the avenues that what will SLOWLY grow our sport. I doubt Facebook, Social Networking, U-Tube and all that other computer crap will do much. While these forms of exposure are nice to have out there; they in my opinion are a secondary source of growing membership.

The APBA dumping $140,000 into OPC/style spec boats to me is a joke........Hearn and Dean should be lobbying APBA for monies to support MHRA style schools and Demo rigs like Matt Gallager from DVORA in New Jersey referenced for his potential new member. Growing APBA racing members from the bottom up seems to make more sense than looking for the next Bill Muncy with 'big boats'. Getting our product in front of the public in person is the ticket. I am afraid growth has been and will continue to be done one person at a time. Programs like what Shane and Dean are spearheading and committing there time to is what i see as productive and should be pursued aggresively...........

At the end of the day we (SORC) allocated Dean and MHRA $2100 from the SORC budget to buy a 302 engine to help prepare a rig for use at the school... i would have liked to seen that number tripled and defered filming the Wakefield Nationals for $6000 and selling discs back to ourselves??????? I believe MHRA's school would net us more results than a video!

And for those that read these Hydroracer snippets and do not sit in on the 3 days of meetings we lament through,many things get lost in the translation. Chairman Hearn conducts meetings in a orderly fashion and by roberts rules which sometimes rubs certain people the wrong way but he runs a organized fair meeting. Ed actually allowed Dean pleanty of room to operate into Saturday and once all the smoke cleared guided the Commission into 'working out' Dean's idea Saturday and helping him word the motion for the upcoming ballot.

Later

[PittmanRacing]

Hello All,

Great discussion with many sharing valid points. Success is also based on momentum. The more you get involved, the more get involved.

As an APBA racer for many years, who is now starting from nothing to get my daughter involved with SO, let me give you all some actual $. As far as motorsports, SO is one of the least expensive, however, price shouldn't be the primary consideration. Could be a deal breaker, but not a deal maker. People will pay if they feel it is fun and worthwhile. OPC was a lot more expensive than SO and I still found it worthwhile.

$5000 to get into the sport is the minimum realistic amount. If you qoute someone a price, you should say "for a little as $5000". Jacket, Kevlars & Helmet new are around $1000. Decent used is not much of a savings, assuming you can find it. It costs $225 plus shipping to update a pre-2007 jacket to current APBA standards. For a decent used boat and motor around $4000. If you are real lucky and have some help, you may be able to get it for as little as $3000. Trailer (used) and prop, at least $1000. We still haven't paid for membership nor height checkers, etc.

Bottom line $5000 for good equipment to go to a race is the minimum amount. Realistically it is about $6000 - $8000 depending on how much good used equipment you can find.

The draw? 1. Kids who love to compete. 2. Great fellow boat racers to have a good time with. That is what sold my daughter. Specifically, for those of you that were at Pleasant Praire this last Fall, what you all did to make us feel welcome and everyone who has helped since is was what closed the deal!

[Big Don]

Dean here is where I think we differ...

Please see Dan's post above and read just a few of those post and see what I feel the average American is dealing with. I hear these same comments every day at work from my fellow associates.

$13000.00 may seem very affordable to many of you but I would be willing to bet that the large majority of us currently racing could not afford to spend that kind of money or wouldn’t even if we could find a way. Very few spend that kind of money when they get started. Most are racing on a tight budget every year. I feel that is why the average racers only attends 4 or 5 days of racing. And those numbers don’t lie. There are not a lot of people like myself (or a few others) that are out there willing to spend their last dollar on a new prop and go to 15 to 20 days of racing every year.

[csh12M]

Where do we disagree?

Don, where do we differ....

Read all the posts in the thread. (or I am dense and missing your point) I agree that $13K is not peanuts....especially when we could cut the cost dramatically for a family if we just made the same motor competitive in ASX ans ASH. We could shave $4,000 out of equipment with a simple restrictor. plate.

Most of us that post on here are adults, we have some disposable income. Give our sport the eyeball test.... When was the last time you saw some young 20 something kid get involved on his own. For the first time in American history the majority of kids will not make as much as their parents.

I am not making these strategies ideas and comments up off the top of my head. I have raced long enough to understand it. Now that I host Racer School and market/sell it I see a lot of our own problems that I did not care about in the past. Plugging the Merc and obsoleting the OMC in ASX. That decision had "big picture" impact. It was not the simple class rule change that it appeared to be. Elec Hutchins is the exact kind of new young racer we need. However, if Mark and I had not lent him equipment for the last few years to keep him interested and excited I am not sure he would still be here. If we want to go mainstream and add significant new growth we have to step a bit out of the box....I am not saying destroy the box, but at least peak out of it.

I spoke with Ed Hearn today for at least an hour (yes we are speaking) I think I could potentially get a sealed spec. CSH class off the ground for next year. Now I can tell somebody that gets out of Racer School, or who can only afford one rig that you WILL be competitive with at least four other boats on the water!

Well see where this goes...I am not sure it is an answer, but it is a peek out of the box! We can't be afraid to try. Not all ideas will work, but some will. When we first hosted Racer School it was scoffed at within our club and by some in APBA, now look at it.

Dean here is where I think we differ...

Please see Dan's post above and read just a few of those post and see what I feel the average American is dealing with. I hear these same comments every day at work from my fellow associates.

$13000.00 may seem very affordable to many of you but I would be willing to bet that the large majority of us currently racing could not afford to spend that kind of money or wouldn’t even if we could find a way. Very few spend that kind of money when they get started. Most are racing on a tight budget every year. I feel that is why the average racers only attends 4 or 5 days of racing. And those numbers don’t lie. There are not a lot of people like myself (or a few others) that are out there willing to spend their last dollar on a new prop and go to 15 to 20 days of racing every year.

[Big Don]

But can't decide between Karting and boat racing.

Live in WI, Weigh 185. What have you got.

I was just on the Midwest Karting site.

I can buy a 200 HPV Heavy kart for 2200.00. (Race ready)
$300.00 for safety gear
$500.00 for Misc to get me started.
I can run just about every weekend in the summer.
Drive only an hour.
Track time is about an hour each day.

Bruce,

What I found when I was doing some checking on karts a few year ago was that sport can be as expensive or as cheap as you make it just like boat racing. Basic setup will cost a few thousand. Need a trailer, safety gear, transponder…

There were 100’s of 1000 to 2000 basic karts out there.

Tires were about $250/$300 a set and they last about 4 or 5 races depending on how many test days you do. (I’m sure they are more now)

That is obviously a used kart? I thought the heavy karts new were around (if I remember correctly) 4000.00 or 5000.00 and shifter karts around 8000.00 or more. I found that used stuff was usually around ½ the cost of new. Found that most used karts were pretty used up if you know what I mean.

I thought we could have gotten in on the low side 4000 to 5000.00 or over 10,000.00 depending on the class and used vs. new.

As for what would I suggest for a class for you. CSH with a 302. Can buy one new (reconditioned) for 2200.00 change the prop shaft and touch up the foot and you are ready to go. Buy a used 1000.00 boat. Couple props @ 700.00 Trailer, safety equipment and you are ready to have the time of your life for the second time. 6000.00/7000.00 should do it.

Hope you decide on the boat racing would be happy to have back with us.

[Big Don]

Don, where do we differ....

Read all the posts in the thread. (or I am dense and missing your point) I agree that $13K is not peanuts....especially when we could cut the cost dramatically for a family if we just made the same motor competitive in ASX ans ASH. We could shave $4,000 out of equipment with a simple restrictor. plate.

Most of us that post on here are adults, we have some disposable income. Give our sport the eyeball test.... When was the last time you saw some young 20 something kid get involved on his own. For the first time in American history the majority of kids will not make as much as their parents.

I am not making these strategies ideas and comments up off the top of my head. I have raced long enough to understand it. Now that I host Racer School and market/sell it I see a lot of our own problems that I did not care about in the past. Plugging the Merc and obsoleting the OMC in ASX. That decision had "big picture" impact. It was not the simple class rule change that it appeared to be. Elec Hutchins is the exact kind of new young racer we need. However, if Mark and I had not lent him equipment for the last few years to keep him interested and excited I am not sure he would still be here. If we want to go mainstream and add significant new growth we have to step a bit out of the box....I am not saying destroy the box, but at least peak out of it.

I spoke with Ed Hearn today for at least an hour (yes we are speaking) I think I could potentially get a sealed spec. CSH class off the ground for next year. Now I can tell somebody that gets out of Racer School, or who can only afford one rig that you WILL be competitive with at least four other boats on the water!

Well see where this goes...I am not sure it is an answer, but it is a peek out of the box! We can't be afraid to try. Not all ideas will work, but some will. When we first hosted Racer School it was scoffed at within our club and by some in APBA, now look at it.

Sorry my BAD...I thought you were saying that 10,000.00/13000.00 was not bad. While it may not be when you look at other forms of racing that pretty pricy for the average person. Even thought ther are a lot of 4 wheelers, PWC's, snowmobiles, motorcycles....out there.