A Plan that WILL work

[BP125V]

reality

NBRA is working with Lucas Oil to put on an event boat racing has not seen in many years. You are continuing to "fix" the same issues you fixed last year, and the year before that, and the year before that, ... Where in the country is boat racing working ?, where in the world is boat racing working ?.
There is your model. The grass may not always be greener but sometimes you need to look over the fence.

Bruce,

the reality of it is that the Lucas Oil racing venue is being built in NBRA territory so to speak. I'm sure if it was being built in northern IL that MRC would be the club organizing this event. The fact is that there are no APBA Stock clubs anywhere near that site and to chalk it up as another failure of APBA is not fair.

I wish the NBRA the best for this race a truly hope that they can build on the first event and make it grow.

[32dubya]

Lucas Oil

Bill,

Doesn't matter where it is. If NBRA pulls this off. Get's National attention. Has a consistant race date there, with exposure, where is that going to leave APBA. That is part of the problem. Everyone is looking in thier own back yard. If they are able to pull it off with sponsorship, prize money, exposure, APBA is a thing of the past. NBRA will grow at a fast rate. No matter where it is, it should be attended by boat racers, not just members of ____.

I never said it was another APBA failure, but this is a direction they should be going. I don't remember who said it but facebook is not going to bring new racers. APBA HQ was "upgraded" 10 years ago. Was it kept up?. Due to the economy, I have had to change my business direction twice in the last 3 years. I am doing stuff now I never thought I would be doing. But I do it if I want to keep my doors open.

Bruce

[Merc1]

Bruce, what were your reasons for leaving the sport?

[32dubya]

Health

I had some health issues back in 2003-2004. Late 90's early 00's this problem still existed. 3 and 4 boat heats, declining numbers, rising prices. All the same issues being discussed today have been rehashed for many years. While APBA has many many years of history, and many generations of racers, it really nees to take a look at what they want to be. Not how can we keep the tradition alive. Right now Hydroracer is the only marketing APBA has going for it, and they don't own it. I see many many ideas but no real action. In order to move forward you have to put some past behind.

[mdaspit]

$13,000 to get the family racing?
Yes, it is a lot of money, and yes the economy does having people hunkering down and holding on, but really?

Is $13,00 so bad?
I mean really, how much should it cost for 2-3 boats, motors, life jackets, helmets, couple of props, a trailer? Enough stuff to have Dad and 2 kids race ready?

How much cheaper can you get it? At what price do you say if you can't afford this, then you can't afford this?

I'm speaking for myself here, but seems to me if you really have a "Jones" to race, then you will find a way. And if you don't? well, the ratio of work to result probably won't keep you racing for long anyway.

Consider horses,... as a hobby, it is growing by leaps and bounds. Lots of familes riding and showing horses together...and it's kind of a niche like boat racing, huge learning curve, takes years to get somewhere in it, folks don't just go out and in a couple of years start winning events, a high percentage of people who lose interest in a couple of years, and costs?...Forgetabouit.

Easy to spend 13K on just one competitive horse, often, a lot more...trailer? yup, and you wont be finding that for $700.00, saddles, tack, hell, a good hat is gonna run a couple hundred bucks...

Plus, with horses, you're not going to find other competitors helping you out like boat racers do...no, you need a trainer at at least $700 a month to get your horse where you need him to be untill you get skilled enough to do it yourself.

I'm not trying to sound like some wealthy guy, but... There is a price that has to be paid to do stuff like this.

I'm not so sure that the cost of entry to boat racing is that out of line, in fact, it seems like a bargain really....Just my opinion.

[B Walker]

Even at 13,000 to get started it is a fact that Stock Outboard is the least expensive motorsport I am aware of.

As Mark pointed out and others have said, horses, karting, jr dragsters, snowmobile racing, jetskis, even lawnmower racing all cost more that Stock Outboard and have more members in their respective professional organizations..

My neighbor is into competitive offshore fishing mostly for Kingfish and you dont even want to know his annual budget to attend 9-10 events. His boat alone cost 50,000. He has several rods and reels that cost more than a 302. There were 4000 fisherman in the Jacksonville Kingfish Tornament last year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson...ish_Tournament

There are tens of thousands of people into competitive fishing all across America and many have the mentality and heart fully compatible with the requirements of Stock Outboard racing. Competitive fishing is a demographic that should be targeted and marketed to in order to help grow the membership.

They have a competition mentality, a familiarity with boats and motors, and money.

I dont accept cost as a barrier to entry and it gets far too much blame for the sports lack of growth because it is an easy target.

Who doesnt want something to be cheaper? That is an easy bandwagon to join.

The problems of Stock Outboarding are more complex than cost alone and if there were easy answers I am sure the brain trust of the Stock Outboard membership base would have solved it by now.

BW

[blueskyracer]

$13,000 to get the family racing?
Yes, it is a lot of money, and yes the economy does having people hunkering down and holding on, but really?

Is $13,00 so bad?
I mean really, how much should it cost for 2-3 boats, motors, life jackets, helmets, couple of props, a trailer? Enough stuff to have Dad and 2 kids race ready?

How much cheaper can you get it? At what price do you say if you can't afford this, then you can't afford this?

I'm speaking for myself here, but seems to me if you really have a "Jones" to race, then you will find a way. And if you don't? well, the ratio of work to result probably won't keep you racing for long anyway.

Consider horses,... as a hobby, it is growing by leaps and bounds. Lots of familes riding and showing horses together...and it's kind of a niche like boat racing, huge learning curve, takes years to get somewhere in it, folks don't just go out and in a couple of years start winning events, a high percentage of people who lose interest in a couple of years, and costs?...Forgetabouit.

Easy to spend 13K on just one competitive horse, often, a lot more...trailer? yup, and you wont be finding that for $700.00, saddles, tack, hell, a good hat is gonna run a couple hundred bucks...

Plus, with horses, you're not going to find other competitors helping you out like boat racers do...no, you need a trainer at at least $700 a month to get your horse where you need him to be untill you get skilled enough to do it yourself.

I'm not trying to sound like some wealthy guy, but... There is a price that has to be paid to do stuff like this.

I'm not so sure that the cost of entry to boat racing is that out of line, in fact, it seems like a bargain really....Just my opinion.

Mark we have done the horses and still do. I call them the money pit. Even in the off season they keep costing with shoeing, feed and vet bills. Boat racing is cheap and you can just stop spending in the winter to save for the next season.

Like the old adage says "You must Pay to Play" No hobby is cheap!!!!!!!!!

[thepiranhabros]

I completely agree with Mackey, except what if the guy weighs 145lbs?

My answer here is: Get him into a heavier, safer, better-riding boat; add a $27 restrictor plate from TJ; add a couple of weenie weights; and run him in 20SSH.

[Boatracer4fun]

Like the old adage says "You must Pay to Play" No hobby is cheap

100% TRUE! Anything with the word RACING is expensive.

[Mrs blueskyracer]

Dollars to minutes used has to come into play somewhere. But there are folks out there that need to have to opportunity to spend their money racing with us. We just have to reach them somehow. And, minimize the costs as best we can to get them started. They can upgrade to "more expensive or new stuff" after they are hooked.

[32dubya]

So I'm looking to get back in.

But can't decide between Karting and boat racing.

Live in WI, Weigh 185. What have you got.

I was just on the Midwest Karting site.

I can buy a 200 HPV Heavy kart for 2200.00. (Race ready)
$300.00 for safety gear
$500.00 for Misc to get me started.
I can run just about every weekend in the summer.
Drive only an hour.
Track time is about an hour each day.

[Dave M]

Wow

Bottom line. Listen to the racers that make up your organization. Don't be an a-hole and not communicate.

Change better be swift for APBA, it was needed 15 years ago, maybe longer. To accept something needs to change now is better than nothing I guess. I have said it before, baby steps are gonna kill APBA. You need to leap. The writing is on the wall, please read it. If another 15 years of marginal growth or decline takes place, it is the end of what we all love and do. It will still be around, but it won't be a big deal in anyones eyes. I am not being all gloom and doom, I am being a realist.

[Boatracer4fun]

Dollars to minutes used has to come into play somewhere. But there are folks out there that need to have to opportunity to spend their money racing with us. We just have to reach them somehow. And, minimize the costs as best we can to get them started. They can upgrade to "more expensive or new stuff" after they are hooked.

Yes i agree but how? A new racer who buys cheap used stuff is gonna spend more once he sees that his original stuff is not compettive.

What im getting at is boat racing in general is a expensive hobby to get started than most other hobbys. For some people, initial fees to get equipment is a sticker shock.

[B Walker]

Dollars to minutes used has to come into play somewhere. But there are folks out there that need to have to opportunity to spend their money racing with us. We just have to reach them somehow. And, minimize the costs as best we can to get them started. They can upgrade to "more expensive or new stuff" after they are hooked.

I reject the metric of dollars to mins on the water. The entirety of the Stock Outboard experience is what is sold when someone buys a boat motor and prop to go racing in APBA.

Some value the family time, others the comraderie around the campfire with a cold one at the end of the day, some value the opportunity to be notorius or famous within the community. The boat racing experience is mostly intangible.

The ride is just the "hook", everything else keeps 'em coming back.

The intangible sale is the most difficult of all.

BW

[B Walker]

What im getting at is boat racing in general is a expensive hobby to get started than most other hobbys. For some people, initial fees to get equipment is a sticker shock.

3200 is a number often quoted for a quality used CSH including a full set of used safety gear.

5000 is a number often used for all new boat, motor, prop, and safety gear.

What motorsport can someone get into for that kind of money? Karting is the only one I am aware of that is close. Most other motorsports are considerably more expensive.

NHRA Jr Dragsters have 20,000 members and growting and a rig costs 10k+, backup motor is 2500, include motor rebuilds and a national traveling tour budget and the number I have seen is about 50k a year to race them at the highest levels. 20k to compete regionally.

NHRA Jr Dragster has 20k members and growing, is significantly more expensive, and it is only for kids age 8 to 16.....think about that for a sec.

I reject high cost as a significant excuse for lack of growth in Stock Outboard. There are just too many competing organizations that cost considerably more that have grown while Stock Outboard membership has shrunk.

BW