Why the Sutherland Plan Won't Work

[14-H]

I just returned home from the APBA Annual Meeting. The so-called "Sutherland Plan" was approved by the SORC. It will now go to the members for vote by ballot. Simply put, the Sutherland Plan effectively eliminates the current B Stock Classes and 25SS Hydro Class. It combines all other classes and makes 20SSH the new B Stock Hydro Class and Makes the 25SSR Class the new B Stock Runabout Class. (It is a little more complicated than this - I'm simplifying).

For the record, the vote was 6 to 5 in favor of the plan. Also, for the record, the chairman of the meeting has the ability to both break and make a tie. That means that I had the ability to vote "no". If I had voted "no", the vote would have been 6 to 6. That is not a majority so the matter would have failed. I chose not to do that so that the members could vote on the matter. Because it passed the SORC, it will now go to ballot.

Here is why I don't think the Sutherland Plan will work. The idea behind the plan is elimination of classes for either a shorter day or to funnel those members into the stronger classes. The reason this will not work is because the only club in the Country that runs a strictly-Stock, only, schedule is MHRA. All other clubs in the U.S. run Stock and some other category of racing. They have to or they will not have enough income to hold a race. If these classes are eliminated, the clubs will just run another category of racing and, most likely, that will be Mod. In other words, nothing will change except that we will drive our members to Mod. Additionally, MHRA which runs a Stock-only schedule only made money on 1 of its 5 races last year. Thus, if they cut 3 classes in their schedule, they are destined to lose more money. The only way to make this up is to do what the other clubs in the country do: run another category's classes. Likely, this will be the same people, running the same equipment, during the same time-schedule. They'll just be Mod entries instead of Stock entries.

Most importantly, however, how much sense does it make to cut BSR, BSH and 25SSH from APBA's class list when we have 8 Inboard classes that have fewer numbers, 14 PRO classes with fewer numbers, 12 OPC classes with fewer numbers and 5 Mod classes with fewer numbers? In other words, we are going to eliminate BSR, BSH and 25SSR as so-called "dead weight" in APBA racing. But we are going to keep 39 other classes in APBA that have fewer numbers.

In my line of thinking, that makes no sense.

[14-H]

The Axe Man!

Here are the raw numbers: BSR, BSH and 25SSH get the axe. Here are their numbers for 2010:

BSR 25 members
BSH 27
25SSH 28

************
Inboard Classes with fewer numbers:

Grand National: 7
2.5 Liter Mod: 19
1 Liter: 25
1.5 Liter Stock 13
Cracker Box 16
Jersey S.Skiff 21
Super Stock 17
KRacing Run. 7
Grand Prix 18

*** Inboard has only 3 classes that have more participants than BSR, BSH or 25SSH. They are: Nat'l Modified: 26, 5 Liter Hydro: 33, and 2.5 L Stock: 41

*************
OPC Classes with fewer numbers:

SST60: 24
SST150: 24
Sport C: 23
Super Sport: 8
Form V: 6
Champ boat: 15
Mod U: 9
SC Mar. 13
VP: 9
Mini GT 3
GT Pro: 9
Tri Hull: 16

**** OPC has only 2 classes with bigger numbers than BSR, BSH or 25SSH. They are: SST-120: 38 and SST-45: 42

***********
PRO Classes with fewer numbers:

125R: 13
250R: 13
350R: 16
500R: 16
1100R: 10
CSerR: 19
CRaceR: 17
KPROH: 25
350H: 22
500H: 10
700H: 9
1100H: 12
175H: 21
CSerH: 14
CRaceH: 14

**** Pro has only two alky classes that have numbers greater than BSR, BSH or 25SSH. They are 125H: 34, and 250H, 28. (OSY-400 is Pro's biggest class. It has 72 members. But if C Stock Hydro were an Offshore class, it would be the largest class in that category too. I don't count OSY as a Pro class. That's for another thread, though).

************
Modified Classes with fewer numbers:

FAR: 24
AMR: 14
BMR: 16
CMR: 23
25MH: 10


**** Mod does the best of all the other categories with the greatest number of classes that exceed the numbers of BSR, BSH or 25SSH. They have 8. However, only 3 Mod classes exceed those numbers by greater than 20%

Here's the rest of the Mod classes:

DMR: 32
FER: 29
FAH: 27
AMH: 28
BMH: 29
- - - Classes that exceed by 20%
CMH: 58
DMH: 43
FEH: 55


The Bottom Line: We are going to give the axe to BSR, BSH and 25SSH but APBA will keep at least 41 other national classes in other categories that have participation numbers less than the Stock Classes we are proposing to cut.

[Affholter66]

To the SO Chairman...HOOORAHHH for you...The way I look at it (as does My Brother Mike) is that our Pit would lose at least 4 heats of racing a weekend. I run 25SSR in Mike's CSR..use his motor (w/rest-plate) and WooHoo have a blast. If 25SSR goes so does MY $160 APBA and approx $400 (or more) in entry fees. To me (and I'll admit I'm being selfish) getting rid of classes means LOSING members, Thanks again to all who participated in the meetings and our SORC. I would also like to say I know Dean has put alot of work and thought into his proposal and that is appreciated as well (just don't agree with it). We in Region 6 are very lucky to be able to put on SO only programs..lets not screw it up! (If I have mis-interpreted how the reduction works I apologize, but the way I read proposal is that the "big boat" 25SSR (ie 102/302 w/restrictor) would be eliminated )

(I did kinda read it right..restricted 102/302 moves to CSR...there goes the sharing a boat..)

[csh12M]

Tell me how you really feel

Well Ed, tell me how you really feel.

I will let our elected Chairman statements stand on their own.

I actually believe that we can right the ship!
I believe that we can save the SO Category.
I believe we can rebuild it back to where it once was or at least where it can stand on its own.
I believe that we can save local racing and should be able to host SO only events.
I believe we can build up our numbers within classes and make them fun to race and watch again!
I believe that Racer Schools work.
I believe that we can sell the sport even in down economies if we make the value proposition work.

I also believe if we do nothing, nothing will change and we will dwindle to a select few Races around the country.

I believe we should not give up! Your elected Chairman must think the Category will save itself. He must think that what we are doing is working. He must think that BSH is about to explode with new members. He must think that Mercury will save us with another Merc. challenge any day. He must think that some magical corporate sponsor will put $100K into our racing and allow us to continue. He must think he is "smart" enough to build the next 2stroke motor we need to race. He must think that it is OK that his Category cant hold a stand alone race. He must think that at the SO Nationals CSR should not have eliminations, and that BSR and BSH were not a farce as with more field fillers than "real" competitors.

Most importantly he must think that 2010 was a great season of racing and that 2011 will be even better.

I by no means am saying that class consolidation will save the category. What I am saying is.... It is a first step in the right direction and if we don't "try" shame on us, all of us.

Dean Sutherland
12M

I just returned home from the APBA Annual Meeting. The so-called "Sutherland Plan" was approved by the SORC. It will now go to the members for vote by ballot. Simply put, the Sutherland Plan effectively eliminates the current B Stock Classes and 25SS Hydro Class. It combines all other classes and makes 20SSH the new B Stock Hydro Class and Makes the 25SSR Class the new B Stock Runabout Class.

For the record, the vote was 6 to 5 in favor of the plan. Also, for the record, the chairman of the meeting has the ability to both break and make a tie. That means that I had the ability to vote "no". If I had voted "no", the vote would have been 6 to 6. That is not a majority so the matter would have failed. I chose not to do that so that the members could vote on the matter.

Here is why I don't think the Sutherland Plan will work. The idea behind the plan is elimination of classes for either a shorter day or to funnel those members into the stronger classes. The reason this will not work is because the only club in the Country that runs a strictly-Stock, only, schedule is MHRA. All other clubs in the U.S. run Stock and some other category of racing. They have to or they will not have enough income to hold a race. If these classes are eliminated, the clubs will just run another category of racing and, most likely, that will be Mod. In other words, nothing will change except that we will drive our members to Mod.

Most importantly, however, how much sense does it make to cut BSR, BSH and 25SSH from APBA's class list when we have 8 Inboard classes that have fewer numbers, 14 PRO classes with fewer numbers, 12 OPC classes with fewer numbers and 5 Mod classes with fewer numbers. In other words, we are going to eliminate BSR, BSH and 25SSR as so-called "dead weight" in APBA racing. But we are going to keep 39 other classes in APBA that have fewer numbers.

[csh12M]

The real numbers...

BSR 12 people raced at least 6 times
BSH 6 people raced at least 6 times
25SSH 7 people raced at least 6 times

Now the numbers that matter!

MHRA Racer School, 10 "new name" Racers, 34% success rate. Seattle Racer School similar results, Region 7 now online.

We need to funnel the "new growth" into the right classes and offer more time on the water in our rigs.

However, I defer to you Mr. Chairman who seem to think this is a "asinine" direction. You have the answers, the Merc back in A is really paying off big....

I will respectfully withdraw.

Thanks,
Dean Sutherland
12M

Here are the raw numbers: BSR, BSH and 25SSH get the axe. Here are their numbers for 2010:

BSR 25 members
BSH 27
25SSH 28

************
Inboard Classes with fewer numbers:

Grand National: 7
2.5 Liter Mod: 19
1 Liter: 25
1.5 Liter Stock 13
Cracker Box 16
Jersey S.Skiff 21
Super Stock 17
KRacing Run. 7
Grand Prix 18

*** Inboard has only 3 classes that have more participants than BSR, BSH or 25SSH. They are: Nat'l Modified: 26, 5 Liter Hydro: 33, and 2.5 L Stock: 41

*************
OPC Classes with fewer numbers:

SST60: 24
SST150: 24
Sport C: 23
Super Sport: 8
Form V: 6
Champ boat: 15
Mod U: 9
SC Mar. 13
VP: 9
Mini GT 3
GT Pro: 9
Tri Hull: 16

**** OPC has only 2 classes with bigger numbers than BSR, BSH or 25SSH. They are: SST-120: 38 and SST-45: 42

***********
PRO Classes with fewer numbers:

125R: 13
250R: 13
350R: 16
500R: 16
1100R: 10
CSerR: 19
CRaceR: 17
KPROH: 25
350H: 22
500H: 10
700H: 9
1100H: 12
175H: 21
CSerH: 14
CRaceH: 14

**** Pro has only two alky classes that have numbers greater than BSR, BSH or 25SSH. They are 125H: 34, and 250H, 28. (OSY-400 is Pro's biggest class. It has 72 members. But if C Stock Hydro were an Offshore class, it would be the largest class in that category too. I don't count OSY as a Pro class. That's for another thread, though).

************
Modified Classes with fewer numbers:

FAR: 24
AMR: 14
BMR: 16
CMR: 23
25MH: 10


**** Mod does the best of all the other categories with the greatest number of classes that exceed the numbers of BSR, BSH or 25SSH. They have 8. However, only 3 Mod classes exceed those numbers by greater than 20%

Here's the rest of the Mod classes:

DMR: 32
FER: 29
FAH: 27
AMH: 28
BMH: 29
- - - Classes that exceed by 20%
CMH: 58
DMH: 43
FEH: 55


The Bottom Line: We are going to give the axe to BSR, BSH and 25SSH but APBA will keep at least 41 other national classes in other categories that have participation numbers less than the Stock Classes we are proposing to cut.

[Ron Hill]

Inboard Endurance and Stock's Numbers

Could someone post those numbers or point me to where I'd find them...


Also, while I'm asking where is the actual Sutherland Plan posted?

Thanks...

[Affholter66]

Sutherland Plan

Stock Outboard class reduction and reconfiguration proposal
Summary:
Stock Outboard currently offers 12 classes to approximately 400 different racing members. Stock Outboard membership is currently a third of what it was in 1976 when approximately 1500 different racing members competed. While membership has continued to decline over the last 35 years, SO class structure has remained the same or increased. The result has diluted the Category competition to the point where less than half the current classes can be considered “Nationally” raced. Instead of making the difficult class reduction decisions that should have taken place over the last 25 years, SO Commissions eliminated the rules that governed class contraction. The result is watered down racing, local class schedules, and a confusing/complex class structure that is a hindrance to “new name” growth. Additionally, Stock Outboard membership has declined to low levels that threaten its existence. Without contracting classes and attempting to fix the product/problem at a National level, SO competition will continue to decline and a category combination with Modified category will be inevitable.
The following proposal represents SO contraction and recombination to the following class structure:
A, B.C, D
ASH/ASR - BSH/BSR – CSH/CSR – DSH/DSR
While class contraction is necessary and must be accomplished the following proposal attempts to minimize the amount of displaced “currently” raced equipment. Maximum retention of current membership has been strongly considered (see effected drivers in the notes section). The following classes and motors would be contracted with potentially no place to race within the SO category.
25SSH utilizing the Mercury 25XS
BSH/BSR utilizing the Sidewinder 15ci
The Sidewinder 15ci could be eliminated from the SO category - The Sidewinder 15ci could also be included within the BSH class, but would not be advisable. If the motor is scheduled for elimination the SO Commission should considerer paying for the conversion of the existing Sidewinder 15ci motors (see notes section for specific members and cost)
The Mercury 25XS would/could still be raced within the category in CSR and potentially in CSH however, it could not be the “motor of choice”.
While the following class structure and proposal will streamline SO structure, success will depend on class parity committees and procedures for success and growth. The proposed structure will offer a New Motor and Used Motor option for every class. While parity may be difficult to achieve it is absolutely critical for sustained growth. If parity can be achieved the following structure offers both low cost used equipment options and higher cost new equipment options. While many feel that single motor classes are more desirable they are not practical for different economic entry points within the category. Therefore the parity committees and procedure are critical to success within the category.
Classes:
ASH/ASR: No change within the current ASH/ASR classes.
Targeted for individuals weighing 135-160lbs
Target Speed: ASR – 52-54MPH
ASH – 55-57MPH
• Current OMC motors, weight 345 ASH, 350 ASR, no other changes to the current class
• Current Mercury motor, weight 345 ASH, 350 ASR, no other changes to the current class
• Current Sidewinder 15A, weight 345 ASH, 350 ASR no other changes to the current class
It is critical for the parity committee to balance the competition within the class to promote Sidewinder sales while not making the Johnson and Evinrude obsolete within the next three years.
BSH: The BSH class would consist of several different motor options with various weights to aid in achieving parity.
Targeted for drivers weighing from 160-185lbs
Target Speed: BSH – 62-65MPH
• Current Sidewinder 15ci at 12CC, weight 365, no other changes to the current class rules
• Current Rotary Valve Hot Rod at 12CC, weight 365, no other changes to the current class rules
• Current Sidewinder 20CI Motor, Weight 395, no other changes to the current class rules
• Current Yamato 80 (20SSH), weight 400lbs, no other changes to the current class rules
BSR: The BSR would combine the current BSR Hot Rod Rotary Valve Motor and potentially the Sidewinder 15ci with the 20CI Sidewinder.
Targeted for drivers weighing from 160-185lbs
Target Speed: BSR – 59-61MPH
• Current Sidewinder 15ci at 12CC, weight 360, no other changes to the current class rules
• Current Rotary Valve Hot Rod at 12CC, weight 360, no other changes to the current class rules
• Current Sidewinder 20CIMotor, Weight, 395, no other changes to the current class rules
CSH: The CSH class has no change with the exception of possible inclusion of the 25SSH class, subject to parity package on the 25SSH.
Targeted for drivers weighing from 185-210lbs
Target Speed: CSH – 65-68MPH
• Current Yamato 102 and 302, weight 440, with no other changes to the current class
• Current Mercury 25XS, weight 415, with a parity package to bring speeds under 68MPH
CSR: The CSR class would consist of several different motor options with various weights to aid in achieving parity.
Targeted for drivers weighing from 175-210lbs
Target Speed: CSR – 62-65MPH
• Current Yamato 102 and 302, weight 475, no other changes to the current class rules
• Current Sidewinder 20CI as run in 25SSR, weight 395, no other changes to the current class rules
• Restricted Yamato 102 and 302 as run in 25SSR, weight for 7/16 restrictor 440, 9/16 weight 420
• Mercury 25XS, as run in 25SSR, weight 415
DSH/DSR: No changes to the current DSH and DSR classes.
Targeted for drivers weighing 200-245
Target Speed: DSR – 70-73MPH
DSH – 75-83MPH
Major amendments/considerations:
• B classes – Include the 15ci Sidewinder in the B classes
• BSR – Rollup boats only or Rollup and Sidefin boats
• CSR – Require the Mercury 25XS to run the .685 x 1.245 flat sided oval restrictor, as ran pre 2006
• CSH – Include or eliminate the Mercury 25XS from the CSH class
Parity considerations:
• Sidewinder 15A with the current OMC and Mercury Motors in the A classes
• Mercury 25XS in CSH
• Weights for BSH
• Weights for BSR

I just copied and pasted..hope ya don't mind Dean..BTW I can tell you have put ALOT of work into this..like I said in above post..its not that its not appreciated..just don't agree..hope we can agree to disagree

[csh12M]

Dont mind a bit!

I don't mind a bit, and we can totally agree to disagree anytime....although over a cold one would be better.

The plan is just how we reconfigure the motors, which is important. However, what the Chairman and most others are missing is that it is only the first step. The second is to get those classes on the water more during the weekend. If the members decide this is what they want and we build the classes numbers. I am expecting the we race all classes three times during the weekend and possibly three heats each time!

Right now if you race two classes 25SSR and CSR both days you get 8 heats during the weekend. If you race only CSR 3 times for three heats each you get 9 heats! WITH ONE RIG!!!!!!!!!

This is the key, we increase the VALUE PROPOSITION to the "new name" and existing racer by 50%!!

In the new "racing economy" if motors are going to cost between $3,500-5000 a piece, than we better get them on the water more than 4 heats a weekend. I am sales guy, I know how to sell. I can't in good faith "sell" what we have to new families. (MHRA targets) Increase the value and WE WILL increase the growth.

Thanks,
Dean Sutherland
12M

[propnuts]

Way to go Eddie

I call you out when you do the wrong thing, guess I should give you props (not the ones on the shaft) when you do the right one. You make very good points and I think everyone will have to have a long hard think about it, but I am glad you will let the members vote.

I just returned home from the APBA Annual Meeting. The so-called "Sutherland Plan" was approved by the SORC. It will now go to the members for vote by ballot. Simply put, the Sutherland Plan effectively eliminates the current B Stock Classes and 25SS Hydro Class. It combines all other classes and makes 20SSH the new B Stock Hydro Class and Makes the 25SSR Class the new B Stock Runabout Class. (It is a little more complicated than this - I'm simplifying).

For the record, the vote was 6 to 5 in favor of the plan. Also, for the record, the chairman of the meeting has the ability to both break and make a tie. That means that I had the ability to vote "no". If I had voted "no", the vote would have been 6 to 6. That is not a majority so the matter would have failed. I chose not to do that so that the members could vote on the matter. Because it passed the SORC, it will now go to ballot.

Here is why I don't think the Sutherland Plan will work. The idea behind the plan is elimination of classes for either a shorter day or to funnel those members into the stronger classes. The reason this will not work is because the only club in the Country that runs a strictly-Stock, only, schedule is MHRA. All other clubs in the U.S. run Stock and some other category of racing. They have to or they will not have enough income to hold a race. If these classes are eliminated, the clubs will just run another category of racing and, most likely, that will be Mod. In other words, nothing will change except that we will drive our members to Mod. Additionally, MHRA which runs a Stock-only schedule only made money on 1 of its 5 races last year. Thus, if they cut 3 classes in their schedule, they are destined to lose more money. The only way to make this up is to do what the other clubs in the country do: run another category's classes. Likely, this will be the same people, running the same equipment, during the same time-schedule. They'll just be Mod entries instead of Stock entries.

Most importantly, however, how much sense does it make to cut BSR, BSH and 25SSH from APBA's class list when we have 8 Inboard classes that have fewer numbers, 14 PRO classes with fewer numbers, 12 OPC classes with fewer numbers and 5 Mod classes with fewer numbers? In other words, we are going to eliminate BSR, BSH and 25SSR as so-called "dead weight" in APBA racing. But we are going to keep 39 other classes in APBA that have fewer numbers.

In my line of thinking, that makes no sense.

[raceright]

Here are the raw numbers: BSR, BSH and 25SSH get the axe. Here are their numbers for 2010:

BSR 25 members
BSH 27
25SSH 28

************
Inboard Classes with fewer numbers:

Grand National: 7
2.5 Liter Mod: 19
1 Liter: 25
1.5 Liter Stock 13
Cracker Box 16
Jersey S.Skiff 21
Super Stock 17
KRacing Run. 7
Grand Prix 18

*** Inboard has only 3 classes that have more participants than BSR, BSH or 25SSH. They are: Nat'l Modified: 26, 5 Liter Hydro: 33, and 2.5 L Stock: 41

*************
OPC Classes with fewer numbers:

SST60: 24
SST150: 24
Sport C: 23
Super Sport: 8
Form V: 6
Champ boat: 15
Mod U: 9
SC Mar. 13
VP: 9
Mini GT 3
GT Pro: 9
Tri Hull: 16

**** OPC has only 2 classes with bigger numbers than BSR, BSH or 25SSH. They are: SST-120: 38 and SST-45: 42

***********
PRO Classes with fewer numbers:

125R: 13
250R: 13
350R: 16
500R: 16
1100R: 10
CSerR: 19
CRaceR: 17
KPROH: 25
350H: 22
500H: 10
700H: 9
1100H: 12
175H: 21
CSerH: 14
CRaceH: 14

**** Pro has only two alky classes that have numbers greater than BSR, BSH or 25SSH. They are 125H: 34, and 250H, 28. (OSY-400 is Pro's biggest class. It has 72 members. But if C Stock Hydro were an Offshore class, it would be the largest class in that category too. I don't count OSY as a Pro class. That's for another thread, though).

************
Modified Classes with fewer numbers:

FAR: 24
AMR: 14
BMR: 16
CMR: 23
25MH: 10


**** Mod does the best of all the other categories with the greatest number of classes that exceed the numbers of BSR, BSH or 25SSH. They have 8. However, only 3 Mod classes exceed those numbers by greater than 20%

Here's the rest of the Mod classes:

DMR: 32
FER: 29
FAH: 27
AMH: 28
BMH: 29
- - - Classes that exceed by 20%
CMH: 58
DMH: 43
FEH: 55


The Bottom Line: We are going to give the axe to BSR, BSH and 25SSH but APBA will keep at least 41 other national classes in other categories that have participation numbers less than the Stock Classes we are proposing to cut.

Ed
Stock outboarders believe that the most important thing is amount of boats in a class...Is this the way to successful racing--???
Other categories do not believe this to be true as the numbers you show
prove.

I will not get into a debate on the subject because I totaly believe in the opposite and will not insult my (few thats left) stockoutboard friends.
Let your membership decide the future and so be it.

Pat

[14-H]

Could someone post those numbers or point me to where to find them?

******

Thanks...

Ron: the APBA website. Look under highpoints for 2010. It lists the number of boats from last year.

[MGallagher]

"Parity" looks like a lot of fun! Good luck with that! There are motorsports out there that have been dealing with "parity" for 100 years and you know what they all say, "just make sure your motor in production is the dominent one." The only true "parity" that will give the ability to continue on, is one that makes our currnet production motors the dominent ones,PERIOD.

[B Walker]

Holy crap, I am in agreement with Ed on something....

Way to go Chairman.

Class consolidation does not reduce the time it takes to execute a day of racing except in a very few cases and even in those exceptions there is no way it reduces the race day by enough to race 3 days over a weekend.

The math just doesnt work.

Please prove me wrong by stating a real life example.

Sorry Dean, I just cant see it.

Brad Walker

[csh12M]

B Walker

Brad, you are right it would be a long day, but don't we want to try and move in the right direction. It is impossible now...

J, A, B, C, D classes three heats three races a weekend is 90 heats total. 45 heats a day, 6 heats an hour, 7 hour race day. Pretty much what we are dealing with now. Run the AX classes with A, or run two of the races at three heats and one at two, or run Sat. two heats and Sunday racing three.

It would be a start, and a step in the right direction.

Thanks,
Dean Sutherland
12M

[Blackhawkguy]

Using a good business model

I will have to respectfully disagree with you on this one Ed. Why would you not use the one club in the country that still can run a complete stock only program as your model for success. Why would you take Stock Outboard on a national level and model it after areas that strugle. Would it not be better to give the strugling areas a good model to follow and let them work out their own problems as they have done for years. You build from a good foundation and proper tools. Don't take your best and force it into medeocraty. Make a good solid class structure and quit trying to please everyone.

Dean don't be so hard on Ed, there is no way to get through everything you need to at a national meeting without using Robert's rules.

The SORC should be woking on making a great model for all clubs to folow if possible, if they are unable do to limited memebers in their area then they at least have something to shoot for. I do not know how many times I see people posting how do we put on better races. You have clubs who do this now. Quit trying to reinvent the wheel just use their model.

Thank you to everyone who takes the time to go to these meetings.

Thank you Ed for taking the wheight of this problem on your shoulders.

From someone on the outside looking in it definatly nees to be fixed. I at this time would have a very hard time purchasing any equipment to return to Stock Outboard boat racing.

Kerry