Stock Outboard Mission Statement

[csh2z]

Sam,
Do it! Contact APBA HQ. get a mailing list, create the survey and send it out. I'm sure the club or region or APBA will pay for postage. Ideas are only good if they're followed up by action.

[raceright]

Phil I think it is great that we have so many legacy racers, but in the scheme of attracting newbies today I don't think the socioeconomic incentives of legacy founders are going to 100% relate to newbies. A lot of things have changed, what attracted Marshall Eldredge Sr, Bill Seebold Sr, Hank Bowman and Pop Augustine is probably different from what brought us Darren Goehring, G.W. Resche and John Mauck. We need to know what has brought in good newbies during THIS generation/cycle and who they are (demographically).

By "good" newbies I mean racers that race for more than one year, let's say at least 4 or 5. Someone who races for a year and disappears isn't helping the cause in the long run. In fact if they don't sell their equipment to someone who is actively racing they are contributing to the equipment shortage.

We also need to know a lot about the demographics of all current racers. If it turns out that only 1% of current racers make less then $50,000 then we can stop actively looking at burger flippers and convenience store clerks as potential newbies. If it turns out that 90% of newbies have college degrees, then we might want to look at them first. If 75% of newbies are outboard mechanics we should look at them. If none are boat mechanics, they are off the list too. If all newbies own boa constrictors we need to put up posters at pet shops next to the cages with the baby mice. If all newbies have frew frew puppies we need to have a poster on the expensive puppy chow isle, but we probably need to keep them away from the snake guys

One of our problems right now is ... we don't know who we are, we don't know who the newbies are, we have no idea where the next generation might come from. You can't "market" something if you don't know who the potential buyer is.

Newbies are hard to find but I believe there has to be a boating intrest of some kind hence why there should be more about racing at the locaL BOAT SHOP.

Pat

[raceright]

Series

Scott
Pro racing in the midwest and east coast would probably be gone if it wasn't for the Title Series..Our friends on the west (left) coast struggle with this all the time and often travel to our races. Long days too many classes almost killed the beast!! When we ran with Stock,Mod and anything else tooo many times we would travel and not race . Had to change and it did now we race 5 classes a day (some times select classes added) 3 heats and everyone races and is satisified. If you want to race two days you can get another boat as we run the same schedule at every event.
Is this the best answer probably not we in pro have mostly legacy racers and most newbies come from Stock or Mod probably because brand new engines are available from europe and anyone who has ever purchased a new anything wants this when they can afford it.
This is one of the main reasons I repeat the old story
if Stock raced something (anything but must allow all mfg;s not just one) sold at you local outboard shop
where boat people visit all of racing would reap the rewards.

Hopefully

Pat

[raceright]

Sam,
Do it! Contact APBA HQ. get a mailing list, create the survey and send it out. I'm sure the club or region or APBA will pay for postage. Ideas are only good if they're followed up by action.

John you have to buy the mailing list also and if it's someone's idea they should use there own funds and make it happen (shows committiment) I have done this from time to time over the years and just last week sent a mailer to everyone in the Pro capsule ranks my Idea's my buck, noone can complain.
Pat

[G Stillwill]

Seems the J division and a few racers figured out how to attract new members I know of seven new J drivers for this year but then again they can buy new motors, conversion kits and gear cases right from APBA or racing outboards.

[reed28n]

J and AXS Overlooked

The J category as George points out, is the greatest growth we have. When you consider J drivers have to leave the class every year and they have maintained their membership number for several years. AXS has kept many of those drivers and is growning to be one of the larger kneel down classes.

Pat, I am not sure the title series is the type of success we need. Each class in pro has a small demographic 125H and 250 Hydro were the most popular in 2007 and had only 30ish participants. Most pro classses had under 18. The largest was OSY at 70 but as you pointed out the Title series dropped that class

The Title Series format has its place and it is first class.

The Stock growth we are hoping for touches all categories.. J and Stock drivers feed all of the other categories Mike Perman for instance, the most decorated driver in Stock this year stated in his Hall of Champions acceptance, "I am looking for an Inboard ride"

So your Title serires drivers are training right now in Stock

Stock is good for everyone and the foundation or stepping stone for most (not all) of boat racing. So I am encouraged by your interest.

[Kristi Ellison]

This a very interesting discussion. Very good points all around. We could ask Dan to set up a poll or two for those who post here. Income, what type of work they do, how long they have been racing and are they multi generational etc. I think you will see a change from 30-40 years ago. I think we have an incredible amount of multi generational teams but it seems other sports have that also especially car racing. My Dad ( Pete Hellsten) started out when my grandfather gave him an old broken engine and told him if he could make it run he could have it. He fixed it and started racing soap box on the east end of Long Island. There are tons of stories like that out there.
There are so many "toys' available these days it is hard to compete. You don't find teenage boys ( not mine anyway) out in the garage on the weekends wanting to tinker.

I agree we need to built this at the local level first. That is how you spark interest. No crazy person is gonna spend $20,000+ for a rig and trailer and start racing on the USTS. Racing on a national series is something you work up to just like Pat Wright and others. Gas and hotels are not cheap so there is plenty of budgeting and planning that goes with running the series.
The teams that compete on the USTS do it for the competition first and foremost. I do manage to get sponsor money for each race but it pays the bills first and sometimes there is no prize money but they always show up. It is a hard thing to do not to add classes but it works! The entry fee is $35 per class 3 heats. The race schedule is the same almost every race.

I really think that clusters of regions or clubs should get together and put on 3-4 big races each season. A mini series that all the drivers that are within 6 hours or less can attend and plan on and build those local races together. Put together and 4 hour program that will will have good fields and run it. Plug the series at all the races and try to pull some the spectators in so they want to follow the races. You catch some of those people and they become interested get to know the drivers and you might attract some new blood.
Longstanding races like Lochaven are great venues to involve the crowd. We have to work with the local municipalities to keep and develop good sites so we keep our exposure to the public and build on that. Find your local civic organizations and get involved with them. They want to raise money to give back to communities and we want to race and give back also.

Enough rambling for Saturday morning I have dry wall to replace.

[raceright]

my point

Scott Yes I know the future Pro drivers come from stock.
This is the one of the reasons I would like to see stock grow. Some move to pro some stay there forever this is ok with me as I have made some good friends the last several years. (Billy Allen,Dave my buddy Jones,Billy Giles
Saun Cavannnnnngh oops. just to name a few and the list is growing..But as much as I like this, these guys will race less in stock as they race more in PRO due to limited time away from home. Main reason for sock to continue to grow..And pro has drivers move on also more resons for stock to be strong..
Kristi why you replacing drywall lolololol boys will be boys

Pat

[sam]

Sam,
Do it! Contact APBA HQ. get a mailing list, create the survey and send it out. I'm sure the club or region or APBA will pay for postage. Ideas are only good if they're followed up by action.

Pat is right, the mailing list is not given out for free. Nor is stationary, envelopes nor postage.

I do not have the $700 to $1,000 a survey would cost to send out and have returned.

I will volunteer to make, distribute, collect and tabulate the survey if Stock will use promotion fund money to pay for the printing and mailing and provides the mailing list for free (I'm not even a Stock racer, I race Mod). I think return postage prepaid envelopes are really necessary. People are both cheap and lazy, any excuse not to do something gets it a quick trip to the trash can. The extra money spent is worth the increased accuracy of the information.

A survey here on Hydroracer will not be a very accurate sampling. Less than half of the membership visits Hydroracer, not all of them are Hydroracer members and I am sure very few would really want their demographic profile out there for the whole world to see.

Newbies are hard to find but I believe there has to be a boating intrest of some kind hence why there should be more about racing at the locaL BOAT SHOP. Pat

Pat, you would think that that is right, but how many racers do you know that are boat mechanics? I know of a few, but I think they are the exception rather than the average racer. We need to take the guesswork out of it and know for certain.

[madstork]

John you are right on. Free enterprise, capitalism, willingness to seek opportunity despite the risk, and other components of a free market, make
things go. I started racing 3 years ago (at age 46) and know how it is to get started. My friends, old and new, helped me along the way. Dave Scott set me
up with a custom built DSH and 44XS motor. The idea of an entrepreneur
bringing all the components together and selling a complete rig, cash and go,
is fantastic. Other considerations : Is there a demand? I my case
there was. Market research would determine this. And let us not forget,,,,,,
is there going to be a prophet?

My 2 Cents
Sincerely,
Doug Follett
87-P

[raceright]

Pat is right, the mailing list is not given out for free. Nor is stationary, envelopes nor postage.

I do not have the $700 to $1,000 a survey would cost to send out and have returned.

I will volunteer to make, distribute, collect and tabulate the survey if Stock will use promotion fund money to pay for the printing and mailing and provides the mailing list for free (I'm not even a Stock racer, I race Mod). I think return postage prepaid envelopes are really necessary. People are both cheap and lazy, any excuse not to do something gets it a quick trip to the trash can. The extra money spent is worth the increased accuracy of the information.

A survey here on Hydroracer will not be a very accurate sampling. Less than half of the membership visits Hydroracer, not all of them are Hydroracer members and I am sure very few would really want their demographic profile out there for the whole world to see.



Pat, you would think that that is right, but how many racers do you know that are boat mechanics? I know of a few, but I think they are the exception rather than the average racer. We need to take the guesswork out of it and know for certain.

Ok OK theres that word is again(CHEAP) Maybe 5 years ago I sent a mailer out to alot of racers in all outboard catergories APBA charged me I believe $45.00 for mailing list and I spent about $400.00 on postage we did limit this to regions trying to get some to race Pro worked a little but I think us going to some New England races did more.
You are right not much return comments with the mailing.

Believe Dirt bike shops help Dirt bike racing by just being there kid shows up and sooner or later figures out how to get a bike and race, think boat shops could do the same if we raced something they sell,Free enterprize at it's best
make the big Mfg's seek your business and the Japanese
Co. love racing and competition. the dirt bikes of today are nothing like the first ones. Could be the same thing with
outboards,just need a start...
Pat

Oh racers that are boat mechanics lets see know about 10 Marshall, Young,Pearsall, Pickerall,(boat builder) Petersen Shop Teacher about the same, Rusnak.Anderson,Voss(owns marina he qualifies) Kugler Litsell the list would be longer for sure might be boating people might the largest
employment area???

[bill boyes]

I suggest you all read rule 22 page 44 of the 2008 APBA rule book. Where is this money being used. Pat you are on the Pro Commission Please inform us all how the pro Commission is using this fund. For that matter speak up Stock and Mod. OPC and Inboard have the same deal here. Inform us all here!!!!

[raceright]

I suggest you all read rule 22 page 44 of the 2008 APBA rule book. Where is this money being used. Pat you are on the Pro Commission Please inform us all how the pro Commission is using this fund. For that matter speak up Stock and Mod. OPC and Inboard have the save deal here. Inform us all here!!!!

Bill
Exactly one of my points, The Pro Division in the last several years has been spending about $8,000.00
on having the Nationals broadcast on closed circuit TV
has this helped don't know???? but it is atleast something.

These funds have to be OKed by the Board (thats fine)
Bill your playing catchup here and thats good I posted APBA's Financials for this reason--where has the money been going (follow the money it never lies) we have not been very active with our promotion money because when
you don't know what to spend it on the best thing is not to spend it.
There is alot of money available for promotion
and the past leaders probably rightly so stayed away from
spending this..Believe me it is real easy to spend a fortune on any marketing plan---but now the present leaders I believe have some knowledge of marketing (have had several long talks with Mark Weber in this reguard)
so slowly but progressively I believe APBA's Promotion will improve..
But what ever the average racer does on a daily basis can only help

Pat

[swheeler]

What price range do we feel a complete keel down/lay down boat, motor, and prop package ( not counting trailer and personal safety gear ) would need to be in to attract new people into the sport?

[Blackhawkguy]

the 1,000 dollar question

good question, the first thing is the boat has to be 100% ready to race, bottom finished, at least a good coat of paint or finish varnish. Some set up instructions should be included, there is such a fluctuation from one builder to the other in price, and finishing a boat is where the expense is, it's all time. Most sleds, motorcycles, or PWC's that are raced now are in the 7-8, 000 range, some are even getting up to 10,000. I would think around 7,000. the other thing is all of the others can be financed if you do not tell the bank you are going to race it, so that is a factor also. I do not know if price is an issue, people who want to race will race reguardless of the cost, it is more making sure the information or equipment is readly available to puchase when they want to spend the money.

Kerry