Stock Outboard Mission Statement

[Blackhawkguy]

And the song goes on

Mark the problem with the Cougar cubs where they were not very racey compared to what other classes where being run, Sport C is basically a fast Cub but were talking at least 30MPH faster than they were. I think Sam's idea has merrit, maybe have a club sponsor a boat or a hydro and runabout, MHRA could have one complete whatever, Three rivers could have one complete another. But as Sam said, are they just tire kickers, the cubs where pretty heavely promoted, and they never realy took off. Having complete race ready rigs is not a bad idea, the problem would be who stores them, or do you take pitchures and have them all crated up ready to ship at a moments notice. I think if someone sat down and priced out a complete race ready rig, prop, boat, motor, safety gear they would have a stroke, I bet it would touch 10,000 dollars, that is alot more than buying a race ready snowmobile, motorcycle or PWC, plus most of the manufacures have race programs where they sell the equipment at dealer cost to qualified racers. I do not think the problem is as much having a race ready rig sitting there as much as what you are selling is based on a mission statement that is not what you are selling, the times are not the same as when that was writen or concieved, if someone was to sit down and read that statement and then go about trying to buy equipment, the first thing they woud say is (this is not what was promoted or stated in the mission statement). There are many good people doing many good things for outboard racing, it may just be time to sit down and look at what you are promoting and make sure it (IS WHAT YOU ARE PROMOTING) I remember being at Constantine for a Pro race about 17 years ago and an old Stock Outboarder who switched to Pro was telling us that at the time you could buy a Yamato 250-350 whatever, bolt it onto the transom of the boat never touching it and win races. Pro racing was more stock than stock. Maybe it's not broken, we are just confused as to what we are selling.

Kerry

[Blackhawkguy]

Good point Sam

No more needs to be said!

Kerry

[reed28n]

Ideas

Those ideas and many others were discussed at the National Meeting. People seem to want to focus on what has happened in the past.

We need to get off the tread mill and put our sneakers to the road.

[sam]

The first thing a marketer does is figures out who the target market is. I say we have no idea who we are and more importantly who the potential racers of the future are (outside of legacy racers).

Years ago there were a tremendous number of aeronautical engineers in boat racing. The fact that Hu Entrop and Bob Wartinger worked for Boeing was not remarkable. Bill Walker from Florida is another, as was Pete Hellsten. I don't think it is still the case, but it is interesting.

First, identify who is a racer and who is likely to become a racer at this time. (I think we should look at non legacy racers who have joined in the past 15 years to learn who may become a current racer.) After that you can start working on some kind of plan to reach the target group. If you have no idea how much a product will cost nor who will buy it, how can you ever hope to sell it?

I don't think we need to hire a full time marketing consultant to figure these things out, but it may be worthwhile to pay a few hundred bucks to a consultant to point us the right direction, since there is always disagreement within the ranks about how to do things.

Do you remember Harry Nilsson's The Point (Me and My Arrow) cartoon/movie? We (the APBA) are the "Pointed Man" with an arrow pointing in every direction but always uncertain of which way to go.

Step One (a) ... learn who we are, marketing-wise
Step One (b) ... learn who is likely to join us

If we aren't willing to do this there is no point in continuing any discussion of "marketing" the sport for the future

[14-H]

Proof Exists

Bob, I'm afraid most of those people are just tire kickers as they call them in the car business.

If the category wants to prove me wrong ***.

Sam: the race-ready rig is a good idea. But, Bob is right. The proof is that the last time there was a large increase in outboard membership was in the late 80's when you could buy a brand-spankin' new engine in every SO class.

Many people just do not want to buy old stuff. The new equipment being available attracts new people, particularly new-old racers, as Dean Sutherland has demonstrated so well in the past w/ his membership analysis.

I think that is why, for instance, you see Stover Hire desperately wanting to know when the Sidewinders will be available so he can buy one.

[sam]

Dean Sutherland has demonstrated so well in the past w/ his membership analysis.

Analysis of historical data of membership numbers vs available equipment or real analysis of the demographics of the membership?

Are you saying that growth depends solely on availability of motors ... and for J, C and D there are no issues because motors are available for those classes? ... growth will now be automatic in those classes? (C should have been expanding forever under that idea) or that growth in all classes depends on motors available for all classes, that all growth is stalled until motors are available in all classes?

Point out the error in this line of thought.

[sam]

Actually, Ed, you took my comment out of context and changed the meaning

[bill van steenwyk]

he's a lawyer

That is what they do

[csh2z]

All of these ideas have been discussed over and over again throughout the years. The problem is there is no incentive for any "volunteer" to go the extra mile. Who has the time? We all have jobs, families and other interests that will always take priority over our hobbie. The only solution that will work long term is a free market enterprise. Financial opportunity IS the incentive. Racing Outboards LLC. is in the early stages of doing just that. The Bass bros., Dave Scott, Ric Montoya, boat builders, prop builders, mechanics, etc. don't do what they do simply for love of the sport. There is money to be made, the opportunity is out there. The question is who is willing to take the risk of "taking it to the next level", making it a full time business? The only thing APBA(WE) can do is try to eliminate the roadblocks and help them succeed. As long as we work only in our spare time, to grow this sport we will remain stagnant. You can not get more out of something, than you put into it. Anbody can sit in front of a computer and ask others to extend the effort, obviously!

[raceright]

[QUOTE=sam;100383]Analysis of historical data of membership numbers vs available equipment or real analysis of the demographics of the membership?

Are you saying that growth depends solely on availability of motors ... and for J, C and D there are no issues because motors are available for those classes? ... growth will now be automatic in those classes? (C should have been expanding forever under that idea) or that growth in all classes depends on motors available for all classes, that all growth is stalled until motors are available in all classes?

I think the idea is available something like the old days.
Say 20h's 55h's and so on.(please don't tell me that will never happen again this is a sorry excuse)

Pat

[reed28n]

20h 55h huh?

Pat,

History will not repeat itself. We are in a member managed organization. Obama would love the boat racing model.....talk about self interest....

How many years are we going to continue to allow three boat classes......

We cannot begin to compare the 70's with J,A,B,C,D one day races with the mess we have today. We have diluted our driver pool by allowing every class contintue to be a National class.......local clubs are trying to make money so they look to their racer supported events and draw in OPC, Inboard, Drags Stock Mod Pro etc...etc.... we sanction everything under the sun. It makes for ridiculously long drawn out days and expires race officials.

We see OSY400 in pro to boost Pro, we see all stocks allowed to run in mod to boost mod.... we have 25SSR and CSR we have AXS and A and Formula A how many classes do we need and at what cost of duplication

If you want the old days....drop some classes, eliminate washed up equipment. Make the format simple.....

Scott

[raceright]

Pat,

History will not repeat itself. We are in a member managed organization. Obama would love the boat racing model.....talk about self interest....

How many years are we going to continue to allow three boat classes......

We cannot begin to compare the 70's with J,A,B,C,D one day races with the mess we have today. We have diluted our driver pool by allowing every class contintue to be a National class.......local clubs are trying to make money so they look to their racer supported events and draw in OPC, Inboard, Drags Stock Mod Pro etc...etc.... we sanction everything under the sun. It makes for ridiculously long drawn out days and expires race officials.

We see OSY400 in pro to boost Pro, we see all stocks allowed to run in mod to boost mod.... we have 25SSR and CSR we have AXS and A and Formula A how many classes do we need and at what cost of duplication

If you want the old days....drop some classes, eliminate washed up equipment. Make the format simple.....

Scott

Scott This is something like what the Title Series started over 20 years ago ten classes thats it, sometimes we have races that allow what is called local favoriate classes but very limited and all classes run once over the weekend.

Am I reading you right, member managed is a negative???
Yes major steps should be taken and there are a few leaders that I believe are willing to take them (maybe you are one not sure yet) Stock outboard has always tried to please everyone and that is what should be done but comes a time when this is impossible for growth to happen
maybe thats now.
The US Title Series is very strong right now and from time to time we drop a week class and try a new one we do not just add a class,this makes some upset but we feel it is needed for the oveall good. We recieve fairly good money from sponsors and feel a exciting show is what they want
several classes running near full fields at over 100MPH
working well right now. (so break out that 125 rig and join us at a titls series race ???) Oh yea we droped OSY this year due to poor showings. This was not recieved very well
but Directors felt needed for betterment of the U.S.Titleseries. Boat racing is the least expensive form of racing there is and yet many complain (Obama people
maybe???) One of the main reasons for so many classes is to share the costs of running a race,remember less boats more entry fee money,gonna happen thats for sure.

Mccain ohhhhhhhhh what a choice
and I'm a Vietnam Vet
Pat Wright
Pro Commossioner
US Title Series Director
Top Hydro Driver
Because in the end there can only be one

[PopPop]

Legacy ??

Sam raises many good points and questions. Maybe we need a survey bout what percentage of racers are Legacy (more than 15 years or a family member ) and what percentage are drivers that came in with no family history. I believe that we are mostly Legacy and family, so we better figure out how and why we or our grandfathers got involved.

[reed28n]

Series

Pat thank you for your service to our country, I have the ultimate respect for anyone that has spent time protecting our freedom to debate silly things about a recreational sport. And that is what our sport is in the big picture.

Silly yes, but I think it is a great release from the burden of all the day to day. A chance to hang out and have few beers with friends. We are still, in my view, the best kept secret in these United States. (I forgot to mention the thirst quenching competition that your job may be squashing because we need paychecks)


You are talking about a series. How many races in your series vs. how many races in the pro season.

I certainly do not think that the members are a negative, we all need each other to race against. I just think that there is a huge difference in what people want to take from the sport. We all need to realize that to continue racing they way we love to race, we need new people to race against and we better get together on a way to bring new people in.

I and most would be happy as a pig in **** racing against the competition we have now......in some pond in a back field somewhere for a $2 bet or a tee shirt, shake hands, stand in the rain, eat a lousy piece of chicken and drive 10 hours to get there. But if we all keep doing that we will run out of racers. We can't stay tucked away out of site and expect someone to notice. We have to take a forward position in a very competitive recreational market.

In the good old days....few people had RV's, maybe fewer people played golf, no one had a jet ski, pleasure boats were out of reach for most, Harley's broke down and were for hippies, water parks did not exist, amusement parks were fewer and gas was cheaper

Racing a boat was more attractive to get thrill. So on the chance we get someone to come to the pond to watch us beat each other up on the water we dam sure better make it look easy to understand, make it easy to get involved and set the hook when that fish hits the bait.

We are not going to do it the old fashion way..... build it and they will come?

That is only in the movies.

We are so proud of ourselves and how we race and how pretty our boats are and how may points we have and how many patches we all gave each other
and how our families all raced in the day, that we are willing to ignore the fact that we are growing uninteresting by holding on to the past.

We have to change a little to continue racing and grow our sport.

I was very encouraged by the group that I witnessed working in Detroit I think that we have a firm foundation to get those racers we need. But it is going to mean streamlining what we do and reducing or combining classes that I believe are becoming uninteresting therefore unhealthy for the furutre of our sport.

Constructively,
Scott

[sam]

Phil I think it is great that we have so many legacy racers, but in the scheme of attracting newbies today I don't think the socioeconomic incentives of legacy founders are going to 100% relate to newbies. A lot of things have changed, what attracted Marshall Eldredge Sr, Bill Seebold Sr, Hank Bowman and Pop Augustine is probably different from what brought us Darren Goehring, G.W. Resche and John Mauck. We need to know what has brought in good newbies during THIS generation/cycle and who they are (demographically).

By "good" newbies I mean racers that race for more than one year, let's say at least 4 or 5. Someone who races for a year and disappears isn't helping the cause in the long run. In fact if they don't sell their equipment to someone who is actively racing they are contributing to the equipment shortage.

We also need to know a lot about the demographics of all current racers. If it turns out that only 1% of current racers make less then $50,000 then we can stop actively looking at burger flippers and convenience store clerks as potential newbies. If it turns out that 90% of newbies have college degrees, then we might want to look at them first. If 75% of newbies are outboard mechanics we should look at them. If none are boat mechanics, they are off the list too. If all newbies own boa constrictors we need to put up posters at pet shops next to the cages with the baby mice. If all newbies have frew frew puppies we need to have a poster on the expensive puppy chow isle, but we probably need to keep them away from the snake guys

One of our problems right now is ... we don't know who we are, we don't know who the newbies are, we have no idea where the next generation might come from. You can't "market" something if you don't know who the potential buyer is.