Pro Rule Change - What's the Real Reason?

[nicf14]

I think you all are wasting a lot of time talking about a class that the kids run for 5 or 6 years. What is the point? If you were using a 125 Rossi or VRP with gas and a fixed can exhaust, transom heights, smaller carburetor or something like that to slow them down then this would make sense. What you are proposing is still a motor that you could only use in K-pro. Restrict one of these 125's for k-pro and when your done then you just remove this stuff and race 125 with the same motor. These motors would last along time 7000 to 9000 rpm. That would be time and money well spent.

[David Weaver]

Otis is Right

I think you all are wasting a lot of time talking about a class that the kids run for 5 or 6 years. What is the point? If you were using a 125 Rossi or VRP with gas and a fixed can exhaust, transom heights, smaller carburetor or something like that to slow them down then this would make sense. What you are proposing is still a motor that you could only use in K-pro. Restrict one of these 125's for k-pro and when your done then you just remove this stuff and race 125 with the same motor. These motors would last along time 7000 to 9000 rpm. That would be time and money well spent.

Wow, does that sound weird to say!!! For the kids, the priority should be boat time (not tow in time), affordabilty and an engine that can be used over and over....also, keep the class at a safe, but entertaining speed.

[G Stillwill]

Well said David that is the point I was trying to get across.

[Lights]

Mr Lights this was in no means to start a pissing match. I just stated what was out there and I dont care if you blue print to some specks or blue print to the max it still cost bucks and there are those that will pay those bucks. I never stated that you had to blue print a pro motor they are almost to the limit when bought so whats the sense. This motor isnt a pro motor when you buy it and as you stated you have no limits in specks or wallet size.

No Pissin here. Just stating a point that it is not needed. Some parents will spend all that money but it is not needed to have fun. Lets get real the OMC will not be around forever. I also think the current 125's running gas and a can pipe would work. They would not spend all there time behind the tow boat. Because they would not have a pipe to pull. This would make them more reliable.

[Dave M]

Restricted 125

I don't feel this would work as well as we hope. It is one cylinder, and any variations in throttle would still load it up and without another cylinder to bring it up I think the boat time would not be as pleasant as it could be. It already seems to be an underpowered class as they are so touchy on the prop pitch and diameter, pipe pulling, etc. Simply in my own opinion the class takes a serious skill set to race because it is such a feat to tune and keep tuned on the race course. I am not convinced that restricting it would allow it to be less picky, it might not stall but I think it would still load up ? I might be wrong as I have not had personal experience with the powerheads used today.

Besides, sticking true to Pro Form, when they are done with the Yamaha in K Pro, couldn't they punch it out to 125cc's and run it on alkie ?

[nicf14]

When is the last time you loaded-up a 125 dirt bike?

[Dave M]

The Last Time I did That

When is the last time you loaded-up a 125 dirt bike?

Was when I was a little smaller than I am now Try starting out in 4th gear and you might experience that.. The bikes have a clutch to better distribute torque. Direct drive means no torque, unless I am not understanding the concept of the 125's. Could be true since I have not experienced the class other than from watching them and roping a few over.

At any rate, I always like it better when each category had engines similar to the category. But that is just personal preference I guess. Not enough kids around now-a-days to support a non-universal J concept. It is kind of nice to see the stock kids can cross over to K pro if the parents think they can handle it. But the concept of this Yamaha interests me. If it could be about the same speed as current K Pro's it is a cheaper version of the Universal J and could attract more kids simply for the affordability. With the recession finally being admitted to by the Fed's it might not hurt to have something cheaper around. It could grow the category, but that is just speculation, and possibly hope.

[Al Peffley]

New K-Pro Motor & Voting "Parity"

I like the concept of a strictly Pro-selected motor for entry-level novices in the $1,500 investment category. Whatever powerhead is picked should teach novice Pro racers basic motor powerhead parts, adjustment, and simple upkeep knowledge (without competing for dwindling motors with the stock & mod racers -- this is probably one of the reasons why the Hotrod replacement came back to Stock/Mod.) Pro would control the specs and usage rules without any cross-over issues with the other classes.

If we made OSY-400 follow UIM rules, the class would be different than CSH and would either survive or go away (it needs a minimum weight limit, in my opinion, to make it "World Class".) My speculation is allowing many CSH racers to vote on Pro rule changes when they seldom, if ever, go to DePue who run OSY outside USTS is adversely effecting our overall rules in other true Pro classes. Think about it...it's a "no-brainer" -- if Antique classes are small in racer numbers (mostly out West) and the OSY class numbers are "huge" in relationship to the true higher-cc Pro class racers that vote the Antiques are not really the driving problem in rule-making. I doubt UIM has this "cross-class" voting problem...

I agree that the Antiques should have their own HOC induction and separate day of racing from the modern Pro classes. As far as OSY/K-Pro, the non-USTS races always have scheduling and delay problems due to people trying to change out parts on J, A, and C motors. The APBA sanctions out West do not reserve a special part of any weekend race for modern Pro categories, so we lose a lot of interest in investing in and maintaining Pro categories (the most expensive categories for equipment upgrades, except for maybe D-Stock or D/E-mod.)

Al

[bill van steenwyk]

Good Points, Al

Al:

You make several good points, and your train of thought shows you have given this situation more than passing consideration.

The first issue, that with OSY and the Antique group voting on "PRO" rules when the issues to be voted on sometimes don't really concern them specifically, is very true, and a problem for the rest of the "true" PRO, "run what you brung, bore and stroke" racers. The problem is that to solve that issue, a vote of the membership would have to be taken, and since they are members, that and other issues that impact the other group in PRO go nowhere. At this point, the largest number of PRO racers that race as a group, with no outside classes(stock, mod, opc) to help put on a show is USTS. To get back to what the PRO or alky division used to be, it would almost take the majority of those and other PRO drivers of the same persuasion going "on their own" with the attendant problelms such as insurance, etc., solved and able or willing to put on races not sanctioned by APBA, as there are not the votes in the combined PRO category with the different factions (OSY/Antique) to continue without sanctioning by APBA. Insurance and the other factors required to satisfy sponsors/race sites are availiable, as NBRA proved several years ago when that group went their own way from AOF. I personally do not see the passion from the "real" PRO group to make that happen.

A good question to ask is how the PRO category got in the situation that exists, mainly a majority being able to "work their will" on what I will call the "true" PRO racers. Based on what I remember, it all had to do with money, or to be more specific, the amount of money given each category to operate on. The more members in the category, the more money availiable to the category. Something like all governments work. I have been told by many folks that were around and involved when the Antique group came back to PRO, that was a driving reason that the PRO commission at the time decided to take them back in. Add to that the goodly number of Antique people on the commission right after the "remerger", and the PRO Chairman for quite a while now being from the Antique group, and you see where we are now. Also don't ever underestimate the present PRO Chairman. Whatever else he is or has done right or wrong, he knows how to "game the system." Add to their votes the OSY group, whose concerns and outlook are quite different from the rest of the PRO category, and it is not hard to see a big voting block there, as you point out. Quite simply the "real" PRO group gets out voted when issues that concern the PRO category such as the recent HOC induction points/WC championship vote take place. As POGO used to say, "we have met the enemy, and they is us".

It all boils down to politics, and the voting block that can influence things one way or another at this time, are NOT the folks that run what I describe as "bore and stroke, run what you brung", which some years ago was the PRO category in APBA. It is not that way anymore, so you either have to live with it, or play politics better than the group that now controls the PRO category, from a long time majority on the commission, to a majority of the membership that are NOT the real PRO racers of days past. My comments are not to make anyone the bad guys, or any other group the good guys. That is just the way it is now, and will be so until something changes.

Human nature being what it is, everyone looks out for what they percieve to be their own interest. The problem now is the majority of the PRO category is not what it was orginally, and those percieved interests have changed from what they used to be, or that is what we are led to believe.