Compressing Classes

[win-or-flip]

Last Saturday i went fishing with P-Nut Pinner and his family along with Chris Helsten, and since chris and nut wern't having any luck they of course got on the subject of boat racing politics. You know the usual stuff, like how badly region five numbers have decreased since the Golden Days and tossing around notions on how to keep class numbers up. And Chris threw out the idea for all the big pro guys to just by CSH's and run the class when there wern't enough pro boats. Not a bad idea. If an average of 2.5 boats show up for the pro classes and you throw the drivers from these dud classes into one Class you'll have over 12 Drivers or more. That's eliminations! You guys remember eliminations right??? Oh you don't? that was back in the day before there was new school or even old school, BEFORE THERE WAS A SCHOOL. but there awaits a problem. not all of the grass roots racers have enough money to buy and maintain and haul and test and race their usual PRO rigs and the backup fun boats. So chris mentioned just kicking out some of the classes. If you have fewer classes and the same amount of drivers you'll (according to einstien's theory of realitivity) have a larger field of boats in each of the classes. so this is just an example


instead of J,AX,A,B,C,D,E,RB,125,250,350,500,700,1100,KPRO,OS Y-400

you can have

NOVICE Categorey

ASH/ASR

STOCK Categorey

CSH/CSR

PRO Categorey

250ccH/250ccR

500-1100ccH

500ccR

so you'd have 8 classes instead of 29 classes.Now i've recently read the USTS pamplet and it said there were around 90 boats at Inverness which is an incredible turnout! so look at it this way. 90 boats divided by 29 classes = 3 boats per class but 90 boats divided by 8 classes = 11 per class! wow look at that. much more competetive and exciting field for racing.

Well having said this, i know there are gaps in every plan or scheme so please criticize my method of thinking so i can perfect this madness and not only prove you wrong but bring racing back to Florida.

Thanks

[888race]

sounds great

I have 3 boats for sale

[Tim Small]

Usts

The USTS usually draws around 100 entries. They run 10 classes. 5 on saturday and 5 on sunday. No more, no less. 3 HOUR PROGRAM. The sponsor usually picks up the tab. The USTS brings the show.

[Kristi Ellison]

Great job Nick!!

It is that kind of forward thinking we need to have. That kind of reasoning is what the USTS started with and is the reason we don't add and add classes. A lot of people including my own Dad disagreed with the USTS when it started but in the long run it was the best thing that happened to the PRO Catagory. Cutting classes is never easy in a volunteer self governed organization but if people can put self serving interests aside and look at the big picture and into the future it can be a way to grow the sport.

Kristi

[win-or-flip]

USTS Rocks!

Every USTS race i've been to has had a good turn out. perhaps Apba and Aof races should be run in a similar fashion because it works. Everyone Races and Everyone is happy including the spectators.

[Steve Johnson]

Pro Numbers

Just curious, anyone know the number of registered Pro members before the USTS and say now?

[AOFoffice]

Every USTS race i've been to has had a good turn out. perhaps Apba and Aof races should be run in a similar fashion because it works. Everyone Races and Everyone is happy including the spectators.

The USTS has their program perfected. I am sold. However, you mention "that APBA and AOF races should be run in a similiar fashion".
I can only speak for AOF.
AOF is a federation which allows a club to run thier affairs as they see fit. The USTS would fit right in without national interferrence to run their shows as a business and series.
The races at Lake Placid, by contrast, are also welcome with no interference from the nationals organization as a "run what you brung" type grass roots club. There is no need to worry about spectators, just fun and meeting the meeger basic costs. No one expects any prize money or spectators.
There are clubs in the middle.
AOF does have a very broad step up chart that can be used -by choice. This allows classes and divisions to run together according to speed. They can be scored separately or by class. No one sits on the beach and all engines are accepted. I have seen very successful races with the stock D, mod C, and Pro 125 running together and it was very exciting. All running at approximately the same speed. Spectators had no clue expcept that some were noisier.
This is not to put down your idea. It is super that you are looking at the options of how to grow the sport, or keep the sport alive. I applaud you for it. Keep working on your idea and perfect it, Just also look at not only compressing classes, but combining classes and divisions of the same speeds.
Also don't forget that not everyone wants to race for spectators.
Connie

[Ron Hill]

Is USTS Not APBA???

Isn't USTS like any Series?? OPC has APR Super League, Champboat, Fred Miller's Lites, and out west Ross owns Western Formula Lites...

Western Formula Lites runs two ten lap qualifiers, Saturday and a 25 lap Main on Sunday. They usually race with the Inboard Flatbottoms, GN's and Nostalgia...Two races, this year, close to 100 entries...

Three kneeler classes, same three or four boats in three classes.....20, A, C...all should be one race....

45 Lites run how many boats show, anywhere from 13 to 20..

More laps, less classes...is needed.

[Ken G]

lets do the thing!

Well Mr. Nick Hooten I have to say i was bedazeled by the comprehension and depth to that which you expressed towards the subject of class compression . These view points are a classy and sizzleling advancements toward recovering and recooperating our regional races.. with that said Nick I reconize your ever pressing concerns for a change here in florida,,,so since we as a whole ,have seemed to try every thing else ,with marginal results.I say im with you and the crew( nut and chris) ,,lets do the thing!!! Cant argue with the math!!! oh yea and as far as elimination heats ,wow !thats a thought thats pretty nice and with the right organizing we can find the "golden these days",,, I believe in the dream ,, and i believe compressing the classes could very well be a start in the right direction,,one last suggestion if we have in our region 3 classes in the A/ASX/J if we run just run A stock and no j or Asx then the we leave out a big chunk of the younger drivers so the A stocker should restict down to Asx and the j 's bump up so we have a one big class,, somthing like that,, We gotta try somthing ... Ken Godwin. P.s. All though the Frostproof Race(sept.30, oct1 2006) is has not been printed in the Propeller magazine, as a sanctioned race it is still on and frostproof is looking forward to a reuniting fun weekend of racing,,, I cant tell you the amount of man hours that has gone into organizing this race ,,lots of changes have been made to make this a more pleasurable race for the racers, so please help support us and take a trip to beautiful FROSTPROOF FL. THANK YOU!!!!!

[BratChild]

Nick, thanks for the "better explination" last night; I think I understand what you mean now.
Ok, I wrote a big long thing and was about to post it....
...but it was really long and nobody would read it anyways, so I decided to try and shorten it (yea, right!)
Personally, I like racing 3-4 classes a day! And a lot of drivers race more than one class! Most of the drivers that run AXSH also run ASH. Most of the Region 5 KPRO drivers run AXSH and ASH and a few other classes (FAH, AXSR, ASR) And many of the CSH drivers also run 20ssH and OSY-400. I think what we need to do is, yea, maybe combine a few classes and/or eliminate some, but we need more people at the races!! There are supposivly 16 JSH drivers in Region 5, but we have only seen 5, and only 3 at any one race! So out of 16 J hydros, we only have 3 at any given race... And I have a feeling that's the same thing with other classes; we need more attendence!
Alright, the bell rang so I have to leave, but chew and spit my idea out and forget about it...just the blondeboatracer talking!!!

Amy

[AOFoffice]

Ron,
You bring up the issue that I was eluding too. I did not think I could speak for APBA, but I guess, as an APBA referee I can.
Nick, just about everything you want to do can be done on a local level. Start there.
The USTS is successful not only for their show (which buys sponsors), but because internally people WANT to be a part of it. You are made to feel special.
Your local club can compress what they want (within reason). Hopefully if your club is successful at it, then it will catch on. But the most important thing is to make your own club something that eveyone wants to join.
To die hard members of many series, such as USTS, and even speaking on AOF, the local or club points are what is mportant. If you work on your grass roots aspect, your local drivers will stay home and not drive a thousand miles to the other race that makes them feel more important.
Build your personal relationships with your members and then compress away.
Using the above aspect, then decide if your club is going to be a spectator club (you will have to work hard selling your product), or a just have fun together club, not worrying about the promotion end. Both have their place.
The problems in Florida are not from lack of water, sponsors, or too many classes. It's deeper than that.
Connie

[dholt]

Perspective

You all down in Florida are facing some tough times. But tough times seem to be the best time to make radical changes. Because when you have nothing (few boats) you have nothing to lose by making some sweeping changes.

I applaud the USTS. They came up with a plan and have stuck to it. Limited schedule. Take the strongest classes and just run those. If you want to race...get one of those classes and join in.


There are several APBA clubs who run select classes. Connie...I'll speak for APBA.

Look at the Jersey races. Look at TRORA's races. Look at MHRA. Most clubs run select classes. EVERY APBA club has the right to run what they want. You just need to pay the bills...so if entries don't cover it, then you need sponsors. That's why most APBA clubs run 15-20 classes at their races. They need the entry money to survive.

Kudos for USTS for coming up with the cash to run races with just 11 classes. That takes serious dedication and committment.


But I'm not totally drinking the Kool-Aid.

This type of approach hasn't done much for participation. Here's the number of boats that ran nationally in 2005 in these USTS Pro Classes:

250R- 13
350R- 14
500R-22...but 11 of them raced 1 time
500H- 14...and 5 of them raced 1 time
1100H- 11...6 of which raced 1 time


Also....the USTS seems to bounce around to quite a few race sites every year. Constantine and Depue are staples...always running there. But why the constant flux in locations? Are sponsors not coming back...or is the USTS trying to spread out races so certain areas of the country get a short drive once in awhile to a race?

Dana

[Lights]

Just to add to dholts ?'s for the USTS. Why is the OSY-400 class not on the schedule at every USTS race? It is the largest pro class in the world right? I think there would be a good showing of OSY rigs if it were on the schedule. Is it because them stock Yamatos do not drink alcohol? Ether do them little KPRO's

Just some friendly ?'s Not trying to start a USTS bashing. I think there program is run well.

Mark

[win-or-flip]

I said it once & I'll say it again.

I think we all agree that USTS has a good show going. So we should try to run our races like that all of the time. Now im not any type of board member so i can't really change anything myself. But i can plant ideas in peoples heads and hope they grow. We should have all of the strong classes run at the races. When three boats run its not exciting at all even if youre in the race so imagine how the spectators and sponsers feel. And i disagree with connie on whether or not spectators matter. If you want your sport to grow you have to put it out to everyone! not just to racers. They already race so how is only focusing on them making the sport bigger? Now the Issue with Gene Engel asking for a manditory minimum of 5 capsule boats used to bother me but it makes perfect sense if your have sponsers at the race. Who wants to watch four boats race and then have one load up at the start line and another stick a piston on the backstretch. then your left with a two boat race. Boring! And as for Amy i understand that people one more than one class and if all of your classes are strong then they can run. So if all the kids that run AX also run A and Kpro then let them all run if they want. so lets look at our stronger classes.....

A
AX
Kpro
125cc
250cc
1100cch


so these guys usually have a good turn out but its the problem classes we need to compress or boot out,

csh,20ssh,osy-400-you could all agree on which class to run and probably get a good field together.

so if were seeking sponsership and we go to them and present them with,

A
AX
Kpro
125cch/r
250cch/r
500ccr
1100cch
OSY-400

at an average of 8 or 9 boats per class its going to look more appitizing than showing them a lot of classes with an average of 4 boats.

Good Racing=Sponsers=Money=Publicity=More Entrees=Better Racing=More Sponsers and so on.....

Lets all be salesmen and women and sell our sport. and who knows maybe we'll be as big as supercross someday.

ps if you post something no matter how long it will be read. people come here to read and be open minded so have no fear.

[win-or-flip]

Guys i Just Finished drinking a whole pot of coffee and it hit me....

We can build a stadium for racing!!! now if we sell girl scout cookies by the masses we can work up a budget of 3.6 million dollars and build a stadium on lake hollingsworth. and just race there year around since its in the middle of the state and nobody can complain that they have to drive farther than somebody else. lol. Just kidding.


But i did hear stories about how they raced on that lake at the Daytona Speedway back in the day. What if we raced there? Sponsers would go nuts!

"Oh, its at Daytona USA?"

"yeah the stands will be full!"

but that'd be lying, maybe we could have a nationals there or a worlds. then that'd be a good turn out.just a thought. you guys can tell me to shut up anytime now cause im not gonna stop til you do or until i see better turn outs at the races here in The Big 5!