SO Agenda

[17W]

What is this?

Rule 28.11 Inspectors and Duties
Remove/Delete - "the engine and boat shall be assumed to have been raced in the same condition in which it appears during post inspection."

Replace with - If the equipment is determined to be illegal, the participant shall be disqualified from the heat of which the inspection took place.

Reason - Assuming is not factual. Participants should not be disqualified from a previous heat if no inspection was accomplished. It should not be assumed that equipment was illegally raced without an inspection.

Who ever wasted their time coming up with this garbage feel free & identify yourself, so I know who to laugh at! What a joke, you must be a 1st heat superstar!

[mercguy]

what is so wrong with it Brent??

Rule 28.11 Inspectors and Duties
Remove/Delete - "the engine and boat shall be assumed to have been raced in the same condition in which it appears during post inspection."

Replace with - If the equipment is determined to be illegal, the participant shall be disqualified from the heat of which the inspection took place.

Reason - Assuming is not factual. Participants should not be disqualified from a previous heat if no inspection was accomplished. It should not be assumed that equipment was illegally raced without an inspection.

Who ever wasted their time coming up with this garbage feel free & identify yourself, so I know who to laugh at! What a joke, you must be a 1st heat superstar!

I think it makes perfect sense!!!!!! Think about this:

you race the first heat and have very good results, then you go out in the second heat, get bumped or smacked into and your motor comes loose (but you still finish the race)......well, you go to inspection like required, and of course you get DQ'd for engine height violation....................now, do you honestly think you should get DQ'd for the first heat also, when you finished the race successfully? How would you feel? It is a VERY GOOD proposal!

[Haüenstein]

Daren,

My observation is that at many local races when there are not as many bodies around to help at inspection, it will be much more difficult and time-consuming to inspect after both the first and second heats. That is the only fair way to enforce the proposed rule, in my opinion. If you only inspect after heat two with the proposed rule you are saying, in effect, "Sure, your boat measured too short after heat two, but you won't lose your points from heat one anyway." So you go out with your illegal setup and win heat one and guarantee yourself a third place, no questions asked.

But that's just my opinion. I'm interested in other ways to enforce this ruling fairly. As it stands now it's just tough luck if you aren't running an illegal rig on purpose-- not great, but it seems like a better solution to me than the proposed rule change.

They always inspect after both heats at the nationals, anyway.

Thanks,
MH

[17W]

I think it makes perfect sense!!!!!! Think about this:

you race the first heat and have very good results, then you go out in the second heat, get bumped or smacked into and your motor comes loose (but you still finish the race)......well, you go to inspection like required, and of course you get DQ'd for engine height violation....................now, do you honestly think you should get DQ'd for the first heat also, when you finished the race successfully? How would you feel? It is a VERY GOOD proposal!

Well I feel if you come to inspection & your engine is cocked to one side or the other due to some unfortunate cir***stance......too bad it is a part of racing. Your points total for 2 heats determines your overall finish....unless you are one heat racing.

I am sure by my post you know what my opinion is, did you waste your time & write this garbage? Or are you supporting it for one your buddies?

We all talk about shortening the daily race program....so if this gets passed I am going to demand the top 3 finishers from the 1st heat to inspection after the 1st heat at any race I am inspecting at! Which of course is going to make the program longer......

What a joke!

[Joe J]

Mike & Brent:

This came from an incident about 3 years ago. A Driver wrecked the boat, but actually saved it and kept going. He barrel-rolled, was thrown out but held onto the throttle. He climbed back into the boat, was able to plane it off, and finished the heat.

The back of the boat was pretty torn up, and the motor had shifted on the transom. I was the inspector that threw him out. While there was no question in my mind that he was legal when he left the beach, he was too high in inspection. I had a hard time DQ'ing him, since we just witnessed the best save we will ever see, and I had to throw him out for doing it.

That being said, I think this new proposal would make things worse. If it were to pass, an inspector woudl have to check everything twice instead of once. Out here, most of our inspectors also race. If this come about we now need to be at the beach for EVERY heat????????

Joe Johnson

[D_Allen_III]

Those are unfortunate cir***stances but there is no way we can put in a rule that would open a door for people to cheat as much as they want during the first heat of the race.

I think our weekend to weekend races are under inspected as it is. We go the divisionals, nationals and record runs and get our motors torn down completely but then we show up at our local races and maybe get our fuel, height and weight checked. I understand inspectors volunteer their time and we are all busy, but reed cages, lower units, carburetors, etc. can be inspected without a great deal of hassle. I say leave it alone or INCREASE the amount of inspecting we do.

[17W]

Well aware....

Mike & Brent:

This came from an incident about 3 years ago. A Driver wrecked the boat, but actually saved it and kept going. He barrel-rolled, was thrown out but held onto the throttle. He climbed back into the boat, was able to plane it off, and finished the heat.

The back of the boat was pretty torn up, and the motor had shifted on the transom. I was the inspector that threw him out. While there was no question in my mind that he was legal when he left the beach, he was too high in inspection. I had a hard time DQ'ing him, since we just witnessed the best save we will ever see, and I had to throw him out for doing it.

That being said, I think this new proposal would make things worse. If it were to pass, an inspector woudl have to check everything twice instead of once. Out here, most of our inspectors also race. If this come about we now need to be at the beach for EVERY heat????????

Joe Johnson

Joe,

I am well aware of the specific event you are in reference to.....but you should have never had to toss JMK out in inspection. The Referee should have per the rule attached below. I seen the picture from the Propeller & he was not even in the boat.

[17W]

Those are unfortunate cir***stances but there is no way we can put in a rule that would open a door for people to cheat as much as they want during the first heat of the race.

I think our weekend to weekend races are under inspected as it is. We go the divisionals, nationals and record runs and get our motors torn down completely but then we show up at our local races and maybe get our fuel, height and weight checked. I understand inspectors volunteer their time and we are all busy, but reed cages, lower units, carburetors, etc. can be inspected without a great deal of hassle. I say leave it alone or INCREASE the amount of inspecting we do.

Donnie- I am going to need to weigh some of you "C" engines internal components.

[mercguy]

cheating?

Daren,

My observation is that at many local races when there are not as many bodies around to help at inspection, it will be much more difficult and time-consuming to inspect after both the first and second heats. That is the only fair way to enforce the proposed rule, in my opinion. If you only inspect after heat two with the proposed rule you are saying, in effect, "Sure, your boat measured too short after heat two, but you won't lose your points from heat one anyway." So you go out with your illegal setup and win heat one and guarantee yourself a third place, no questions asked.

But that's just my opinion. I'm interested in other ways to enforce this ruling fairly. As it stands now it's just tough luck if you aren't running an illegal rig on purpose-- not great, but it seems like a better solution to me than the proposed rule change.

They always inspect after both heats at the nationals, anyway.

Thanks,
MH

I think the responses here are assuming people are cheating, which is not why this was brought up. I understand the time issue in the day, but is that the only reason why this rule change should not be considered? It does not state anywhere in the book that the inspection has to be the 2nd heat, it can be the first or whatever.

[mercguy]

garbage?

Well I feel if you come to inspection & your engine is cocked to one side or the other due to some unfortunate cir***stance......too bad it is a part of racing. Your points total for 2 heats determines your overall finish....unless you are one heat racing.

I am sure by my post you know what my opinion is, did you waste your time & write this garbage? Or are you supporting it for one your buddies?

We all talk about shortening the daily race program....so if this gets passed I am going to demand the top 3 finishers from the 1st heat to inspection after the 1st heat at any race I am inspecting at! Which of course is going to make the program longer......

What a joke!

you made your opinion and I brought up a cir***stance. It did not have to do with a **** thing whether the person is my buddy or not, which he is, buy not the flippin point.

inspect whatever heat you want, you have that option...........if the only answer you have to turn down this change is because it makes the day longer, well, that is not good enough...........

[mercguy]

increasing...........

Those are unfortunate cir***stances but there is no way we can put in a rule that would open a door for people to cheat as much as they want during the first heat of the race.

I think our weekend to weekend races are under inspected as it is. We go the divisionals, nationals and record runs and get our motors torn down completely but then we show up at our local races and maybe get our fuel, height and weight checked. I understand inspectors volunteer their time and we are all busy, but reed cages, lower units, carburetors, etc. can be inspected without a great deal of hassle. I say leave it alone or INCREASE the amount of inspecting we do.

I do believe inspection should be increased also

[Haüenstein]

I think the responses here are assuming people are cheating, which is not why this was brought up. I understand the time issue in the day, but is that the only reason why this rule change should not be considered? It does not state anywhere in the book that the inspection has to be the 2nd heat, it can be the first or whatever.

The intentions — however noble — don't really matter if the new rule rewards cheating. I think the time/manpower issue is significant.

[Joe J]

Daren:

I also thought the inspections needs to be increased, so I became an inspector. how about you???????

I know you run a lot of classes, but you could could assist as well.

Joe

I do believe inspection should be increased also

[dholt]

Hey Darren,

You think if someone is tossed for illegal fuel after heat #2 they should be given points for their first heat anyway???

Do you really believe they were running legal fuel in heat #1 and something just "happened" in heat #2 to make it illegal?

Aside from inspecting after every heat, there is an argument on both sides of this issue.

But how many times does something just "happen" in heat #2 that wasn't already a factor in heat #1?

What happened to JMK kind of sucked...but that's racing. Much liked getting chopped by a guy who already jumped the gun.


On another note...can we add a resolution TO STOP REFERING TO THE STOCK NATIONALS AS THE "SUMMER" NATIONALS???

[dholt]

Hey Darren,

You think if someone is tossed for illegal fuel after heat #2 they should be given points for their first heat anyway???

Do you really believe they were running legal fuel in heat #1 and something just "happened" in heat #2 to make it illegal?

Aside from inspecting after every heat, there is an argument on both sides of this issue.

But how many times does something just "happen" in heat #2 that wasn't already a factor in heat #1?

What happened to JMK kind of sucked...but that's racing. Much liked getting chopped by a guy who already jumped the gun.


On another note...can we add a resolution TO STOP REFERRING TO THE STOCK NATIONALS AS THE "SUMMER" NATIONALS on HR?

It's THE National Championship. The one and only. Not to be confused with a race in the Winter meant to draw boats to a weekend race.