West System - System 3 epoxy question

[Jeff Brewster 59s]

My son and I are currently building him a Jsr as seen in another post. I have noticed that both of us are having problems with our eyelids!

Here is my hypothesis...you all tell me if I am right....
Due to the enclosed garage from a cold Ohio spring, we have poor ventilation.
I think the vapors are burning the soft tissue of our eyelids! We both have dry, itchy eyelids that reminds me of a sunburn that hurts like heck.

Thought about using safety glasses, but dont think they will protect against the vapors.

My wife has suggested a oscillating fan...which we will try tonight.

Has anyone else dealt with these problems?

I remember Brent Walbrun telling me he found out he was allergic to the epoxy and he had to finish his DSH looking like a hazmat clean up team!

[crankbearing]

epoxy effects

Hey Jeff,

I think that the vapours can affect people in different ways.. I use a fan and always crack the garage door open a little to allow it to escape.. I find that I cough for a few days after I have put a coating on a boat..

Regards,

[Guest]

A ZAK story

Harry Pasturzak “ZAK” told me he had used epoxy for years before becoming extremely allergic to it after he got some into a cut one day. After that he had to be careful never to come in contact with uncured epoxy or its vapor, if he did he would break out with a painful rash that would last for days.

West System is one of the safer epoxies to use. Use a fan and crack open a window or door.

[rbengines]

This happen to me also. I had built many boats with West System and started having trouble with ichy eyes and hands. I called West Systems and was told that it was not their product giving me the problem. The more I worked with it the worst it got. My hands developed a rash on them at the finger nails. Had it 14 years after I stop using it. I can tell you from experience it is the West System. It will get worse if you continue to use it. You will get to the point that when you get in the vapors it will affect you. I've come in contact with it lately and it doesn't seem to affect me yet, so I think it is an ac***ulated thing. I've talked to different one about this and some have the same effect. My advice is to work in a well ventilated area, use a mask and gloves. The **** of it is there's no better glue available as far as strength.

[jsilvestri]

Jeff,

I have not had any problems with my skin when building boats with West. However, when I am building, it is summer out and the garage doors are open. I would suggest that you try to keep the garage well ventilated and use safety gear when possible. Be careful with using vans to ventilate. My experience is that when there is a lot of moving air, like from a van, the West will set-up much faster than expected. I've had to throw out West many times because it set-up way to fast because we were running a box fan in the garage to try and keep ourselves as cool as possible when working.

[canoecty]

WEST System epoxies

We build canoes and have used WEST (Wood Epoxy Saturation Technique) epoxies for years. We used to stop at the WEST shop in Bay City when we were hauling boats out of Michigan. Neat shop; excellent atmosphere; great ideas. The WEST guys are top notch. But; with the use of any epoxies you must be cautious. Since I've gotten back into racing and have consulted with current racers on hydro design before building our own, I'm shocked at the indiscriminate use of epoxy resins! You've got to be careful with this stuff! It's necessary to have some control over temperature and humidity and adequate ventilation is a must. The previous posts are correct, the situation Jeff Brewster describes is, I believe, due to a lack of ventilation. When using epoxies we always ventilate our shop from both ends with fans and open windows/doors. You must move the air thru the shop; a fan blowing in at one end/out at the other. Once a person gets sensitized to epoxy you must stay completely away from it, even in the cured state. It starts just as Brewster describes with a slight skin irritation and proceeds from there. The next step can look like a poison ivy rash. And the next step can be hospitalization.
We have customers building their own wooden canoes (cedar strip construction) and covering with fiberglass cloth and epoxy resin. We are dealers for WEST and always recommend it since it the most 'user friendly' epoxy. But we caution about ever using it under living quarters (basement) or in an attached structure (garage) since the vapors can collect in a wood frame structure and cause problems down the road. Best advice is to use in a free standing workshop. If an attached garage must be used line the work area before starting with a poly covering that can be torn down and discarded after the project is completed.
My experience (30 years working with WEST epoxy) tells me that the condition Jeff Brewster describes is right on the edge of serious trouble.
Good luck; please be careful.
____________
Dave Curtis
Hemlock, NY

CMH -- 58-N

[Jeff Brewster 59s]

Thanks!

You guys are great! Good info...I sure didnt want to sound too stupid with my problem. But, I figured what the heck...a discussion on this topic may help a lot of people. Tonight, the Brewster boat shop #2 will be one windy place!

[csh2z]

Jeff,
We have studied this problem for at least ten years and have found that the only successful treatment is consuming large quantities of a barley & hops solution commonly refered to as BEER!
On tap, John 2-Z

[Lights]

Jeff,
We have studied this problem for at least ten years and have found that the only successful treatment is consuming large quantities of a barley & hops solution commonly refered to as BEER!
On tap, John 2-Z

LOL, Thats great news! I love beer.

But now I know why when I was using it this winter. I got a slight rash on my chest and my arms itched a bit.

Mark

[Dew1us]

Jeff,
We have studied this problem for at least ten years and have found that the only successful treatment is consuming large quantities of a barley & hops solution commonly refered to as BEER!
On tap, John 2-Z

Should that be the beverage of choice for the J driver??? Now I see where Ryan got it..

[Abbott Racing]

I know a number of people that have bad reactions to West System and a friend of mine gets violently ill working with it. I use an epoxy called MIA Poxy, it is a 4:1 mix and is absolutley amazing. It is half the price of West and you can also use things like the Microlight filler etc from west with it.

A gentleman who races and builds tunnels told me about it and it is great.

[C Stock Racer]

I have used several different brands of epoxy and never had any reactions from any of them. Anytime I know I'm going to get into a messy situation I use nitrile gloves. They hold up better than latex and resist chemicals better. George Scott

[Bill Huson]

epoxy reactions are ac***ulative . . .

Expected worker *life* before becoming sensitive to epoxy resin varies with hair color. Brunettes last close to a year, blondes maybe 6 months, and redheads tank after a few weeks. Sensitivity to polyester resins seem to occur from the get-go, and my personal experiance when manufacturing fiberglass model yacht kits is that redheads beware. One of my redhead employees reacted on day one and was remanded to job that didn't require contact with uncured resin.

Hobby builders beware. Use ventilation and gloves and you may wish to use an OSHA respirator with twin cartridges. 3M makes cartridges to knock down a variety of fumes. ***bersome - yes, but if you seem to have a prob with resins I would advise using a respirator.

[les]

Bad Fumes

Bad fumes? I thought that was just something that occurred naturally from beer and pizza next to a stack of spruce and marine plywood.

Seriously, I have been working with epoxy and cyanoacrylates (Ca/superglue) for years in the radio control business.
I have not heard of sensitivity to epoxies, but it would not surprise me given the quantities required for boat building/finishing, and the fumes that could build up.
I know a lot of model builders (myself included), who have developed a reaction to the CA fumes over time, so take care with them also.

Wear them gloves and masks!

[aojesus]

fumes and particles

Good Evening,
I started working with epoxy systems on boats and cars over twenty years ago. No problems at first, but time took it's toll. Respirators are very helpful but remember that if you can still smell the product through the respirator it really isn't helping much. I can't use rubber gloves because I am too unco-ordinated. I usually wind up accidently laminating them into the project. I cover my hands and arms with a product called glove coat. It is a heavy cream much like saddle soap. It does a great job blocking off pores and stopping much of the skin irritation. It washes off easily with soap and water.
It also works great when sanding or grinding glass. No itching problems.
When I have to use a lot of fan draft I use a slower curing catalyst.
It is the same for me wether using epoxy or polyester.


RussW