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Picked up an 8' Hydro/Runabout thing last weekend, what is it?

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  • 25xs
    replied
    Super pics! You are in "good hands" with Ron Thomas and you are very lucky to live close enough to visit in person! If you need/want a bottom fin for your boat, I just ran across one in my storage and will donate it to your restoration. Check your boat bottom carefully and you may see the previous mounting holes for a fin. Really, the only difference between a 20ci KE/KF/KG/KH-7 block and a 15ci KG-4 (A-class) block is the displacement, so you may still have a 20ci (B-class) engine there with a KG-4 tank rim and serial tag.

    Have you figured out which "Sea Flea" boat plans your hydroplane was built from?? It is not a Minimax or a Minimost.

    Could it be this little shingle? https://www.muskokaseaflea.ca/Plans/...0Hot%20Rod.pdf

    You seem quite capable and resourceful enough to really make this project a hit. Stay the course and do the restoration of the engine correctly and you'll have a whole lot of fun.



    Leave a comment:


  • Shane_B
    commented on 's reply
    So judging by the serial #, your motor is a 50-51 KG-4 and since there is no “Q” after their serial #, the quick silver unit was a later add-on as mentioned previously (info obtained from the “oldmercs.com” website. Are you going to put a fin 1/2 to 2/3 back from end of sponson to transom center hull for stability/turning? Racing hydros have fin on back of left sponson for turning (only left turns - or you will go swimming!), but for a lake boat, above centered position will do turning either direction…. Just think without a fin you may have directional stability issue… especially when turning. Maybe some wiser folks out there might have a suggestion. (Note, when installing a fin, need to have a backing plate…). You are going to have fun out there, just be safe!

  • DeanFHobart
    replied
    Have Ron help you with that also... there are cutoff switches also available.

    Leave a comment:


  • ADDvanced
    replied
    Alright boys, I dropped my lower unit off at Ron's place yesterday over my lunch hour. Super cool guy, showed me his workshop and his assortment of tools/parts. We took the cone nut off the back, and he started pulling parts to look at the prop shaft, everything is pretty good, what surprised me most was that he said I should reuse my old waterpump; it's in great condition and very resiliant; he said the reproduction waterpumps don't spring back like some of the originals.

    Anyway, we got to discussing the rest of my build, and he mentioned a remote throttle hookup for KE7/KG4/KG7s, and drew me a diagram of what I'm looking for. I've been hunting around online... this is the only thing I can find; is this what I need?

    https://www.oldmercs.com/product_p/1028a1.htm

    This plate, plus bowden/teleflex cable, and my quincy throttle = good to go?

    Also, what is the best way to make a lanyard on this style engine? With all the electronics up top, I'm just unsure of the best way of cutting the ignition if I go for an unintentional swim.

    Leave a comment:


  • ADDvanced
    replied
    Called Ron tonight, going to drop off the lower unit tomorrow, but I notice it has a crack in it near the drain plug. :\

    Anyway, here are pics of the engine as requested:




    Leave a comment:


  • 25xs
    replied
    You did well to sharpen up the trailing edges of the bottom in the pictures above... You won't find a "spoon fed" service manual for your engine or especially for the gearcase. You'll just need to be patient and take the free advice from unpaid volunteer help on these websites.

    There are three or four guys who offer a paid service to rebuild/repair your quicksilver racing gearcase and if your budget allows, it's the best way to go. Ron Thomas (The Foot Doctor) North of Milwaukee, Doug Kay near Detroit or Steve Roskowski, Indianapolis come to mind right away as expert, trustworthy shops to send the gearcase to get it back in shape to run. It's a rare bird, with constant maintenance required to keep it healthy, otherwise it's a $1,200 paper weight if you screw it up. The engines are a dime-a-dozen in the antique outboard motor circles as basically a fishing engine and you likely won't damage the racing exhaust tower so concentrate your effort on making the gearcase reliable.

    Could you post some pictures of the engine in this thread...? Not really wanting to watch all the YouTube videos to catch up on this project.

    Twice in comments you've brushed past or simply ignored some good advice... Your flywheel has a manual rope start sheave that does not belong there and your recoil is likely jamming on it. Remove it. The recoil should only engage the funky flywheel nut, not the added rope sheave with manual rope start slots.

    Leave a comment:


  • 25xs
    replied
    You did well to sharpen up the trailing edges of the bottom in the pictures above... You won't find a "spoon fed" service manual for your engine or especially for the gearcase. You'll just need to be patient and take the free advice from unpaid volunteer help on these websites.

    There are three or four guys who offer a paid service to rebuild/repair your quicksilver racing gearcase and if your budget allows, it's the best way to go. Ron Thomas (The Foot Doctor) North of Milwaukee, Doug Kay near Detroit or Steve Roskowski, Indianapolis come to mind right away as expert, trustworthy shops to send the gearcase to get it back in shape to run. It's a rare bird, with constant maintenance required to keep it healthy, otherwise it's a $1,200 paper weight if you screw it up. The engines are a dime-a-dozen in the antique outboard motor circles as basically a fishing engine and you likely won't damage the racing exhaust tower so concentrate your effort on making the gearcase reliable.

    Could you post some pictures of the engine...? Not really wanting to watch all the YouTube videos to catch up on this project.

    Leave a comment:


  • DeanFHobart
    replied
    Looks good to me.

    Leave a comment:


  • ADDvanced
    replied
    Alright, couple updates:

    I built a form on the back trailing edge of the hull out of wax paper, cardboard, and scrap wood, in order to build up the rear edge. I used microspheres in the epoxy to build a thickened amount, and used tape to try to keep it captured to build up, then sanded it flat.




    Still need to block it, but getting pretty close. Look good?

    Leave a comment:


  • ZUL8TR
    replied
    Originally posted by ADDvanced View Post

    I'm undecided. I want to run it with raw epoxy, see how fast I can get it going, then do pads of graphite epoxy to see if it makes any noticable speed difference.

    Also, is this the waterpump impeller I need?

    https://www.oldmercs.com/product_p/47-20813.htm

    Where does one find the special tools needed to remove cone at the back of gearcase? I'd like to redo the seals, if it isn't too hard, then change the grease, and feel confident I won't blow it up.
    Try the raw epoxy run then the other stuff, getting accurate noticeable measurable results will prove difficult, too many testing variables days apart. But give it a go. I found a different process that worked great in my race days and still used at local AOMCI events.

    That is "not" the correct pump for the Quicksilver race lower unit that takes a Merc part #47-20945 that fits your gear case and others used on several race engines. Here is one for $58 at oldmercs. My concern on these is how old are they and how stored and if the rubber has dried out and if cracks at the blade roots? Before ordering call Ron Thomas below and he can tell you what he has in stock and condition

    https://www.oldmercs.com/product_p/47-20945.htm

    Working on the Quicksilver gear case is not easy to do 1st time in there, special tools required and parts are not readily available. I suggest you call Ron Thomas and ask questions, he is expert on these units and rebuilds them and has all the parts then decide if you want to tackle it or have him do it?

    As for seals there are 5 for the gear case as noted in the link for the 20H engine I posted above. Some bearing suppliers have them except for the special large square section O ring on the water pump cartridge and the drive shaft seal that is NLA but a substitute is available. There are 2 special tools, one to remove the outer cone and the other to remove the water pump cartridge, pictures in the 20H link. These tools are not readily available so contact Ron Thomas and Frank Erion if they have them or can advise where to get.

    Contacts:

    Ron Thomas the Foot Doctor Merc gear case rebuilder and has all the parts he knows all the details, great resource.
    email: birdfoot_23@yahoo.com
    414-353-4465

    Frank Erion has a huge supply of the Merc race engine parts including seals, prop shafts, gears, bearings, etc:

    Classic Merc Racing Engines and Parts
    Frank Erion
    email: fderion@msn.com
    269-720-1337

    Leave a comment:


  • DeanFHobart
    replied
    For the cone tool.... Brown Tool and Machine....btmco.com.... Or Antique Outboard Motor Club Inc.... AOMCI.org..... or the old merc parts company that you have been to.

    Leave a comment:


  • ADDvanced
    replied
    Originally posted by ZUL8TR View Post
    Wrench on cone not good

    Here is link again

    http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forum...20H-parts-list

    Do you plan on a non epoxy top coat like solid paint color, auto clear or varnish? UV not good for epoxy and it will degrade over time.
    I'm undecided. I want to run it with raw epoxy, see how fast I can get it going, then do pads of graphite epoxy to see if it makes any noticable speed difference.

    Also, is this the waterpump impeller I need?

    https://www.oldmercs.com/product_p/47-20813.htm

    Where does one find the special tools needed to remove cone at the back of gearcase? I'd like to redo the seals, if it isn't too hard, then change the grease, and feel confident I won't blow it up.

    Leave a comment:


  • DeanFHobart
    replied
    Remove the ‘manual start rope pull’ on top of the flywheel.... this was not stock and could be causing the bind up of the rewind.

    Also, when the rewind is off of the top and you try to pull it, the two starter magnetic pawls go inward,... keep them apart as if they were engaging the starter ratchet nut.... the rope should pull out. Try that.

    Leave a comment:


  • ZUL8TR
    replied
    Wrench on cone not good

    Here is link again

    http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forum...20H-parts-list

    Do you plan on a non epoxy top coat like solid paint color, auto clear or varnish? UV not good for epoxy and it will degrade over time.

    Leave a comment:


  • ADDvanced
    replied
    I am not seeing a serial number anywhere. Blows my mind people are still trying to make money on manuals for engines close to 100 years old. These should be free at this point. I'd hate to buy a manual only to find out it's for one with a regular lower unit.

    It looks like my rear cone has been opened/tightened with a plumbers wrench as it's marred up a bit. Can you repost your link? That one isn't working.
    Last edited by ADDvanced; 05-30-2021, 07:51 AM.

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