APBA Annual Meeting Agenda

[ricochet112]

Return to the way it WAS

The race should start when the first legal boat crosses the start line. This has the most significance in record setting. How much sense does it make to start the time 1 to 2 seconds before the first legal boat crossses the start line? That's not measuring the true speed of that boat. If we're going to use a time other than when the first legal boat crosses, why not use the time from when the white flag flies, or the green flag for that matter. Anything other than when the first boat starts, is purely arbitrary and has nothing to do with the quickness of that particular race.

Well said!!!!!

We try to emulate NASCAR, when do they start timing, when one crosses the start finish line of course.

Why was is easy to change it to the "first legal boat" and not so easy to go back to the way it has been for 20+ years?????

Mike

[14-H]

*** How can this be?

The specs are the same as either the 102 or 302.

???

[Joe J]

[QUOTE=14-H]The specs are the same as either the 102 or 302.

Ed:

Both 202 models are sort of a hybrid between the 102 and the 302. Yes they are faster, and yes some are ran in OSY.

You would need to check with Ric Montoya, but not as many of them were broughht into the US, as opposed to the 102& 302's.

Joe

[D_Allen_III]

Competition

As the other 10 people said before me, these are competition records that we have in our record books. If we are worried about setting a pure speed record where the clock starts when we cross the start line, go and break a kilo record. Part of the holding a record is having to do more then just get people to pull off the course and have a fast rig, you should have to get a "real" start and break the COMPETITION records that we have set.

[AJennings]

The specs are the same as either the 102 or 302.

???

ED,
The 202 has a lighter crank than a 102 and the 302. so thats why its faster.

[Joe J]

ED,
The 202 has a lighter crank than a 102 and the 302. so thats why its faster.

Actually, this is not correct. A 202D has a 102 crank, but has 302 sleeves in it. It uses a 102 mag plate as well, and has the 102 height tower.

A 202E is exactly the same as a 302 with the excpetion of the ignition. It still uses the 102 mag plate.

Joe

[Charlie Pater]

So if it is 1-1.5 MPH faster out of the box, everyone in OSY 400 is using one, right?

We tested one when they were first available. There are not that many 202s in the states because APBA did not approve them for use in CSH ie not many run in OSY 400.

[Big Don]

As the other 10 people said before me, these are competition records that we have in our record books. If we are worried about setting a pure speed record where the clock starts when we cross the start line, go and break a kilo record. Part of the holding a record is having to do more then just get people to pull off the course and have a fast rig, you should have to get a "real" start and break the COMPETITION records that we have set.

What has the world come to we both agree on something.

Oh wait, we both agree we need at least another 1 MPH in 20H.

[Mark 72@E]

Grand Prix Class

In a post by Ron Hill some time ago he suggested having a class that combined several classes into one with very simple rules. The one that I remember is that boats can only pass on the outside. I haven’t tried to find the post to see what else he had in mind.

So, having attributed the original idea to Ron, I would like to ask that the SO Commission to consider the creation of a new class at the annual meeting to be called Grand Prix.

Before you say this idea won’t work, please read this post entirely, including the objections I’ve already addressed at the end.

The purpose of the Grand Prix class is to >>guarantee<< anyone who comes to a boat race with a legal stock outboard rig the opportunity to race.

The rules would be simple:

1) Any present or past stock outboard class can run in Grand Prix. This specifically means hydroplanes will be running with runabouts. This specifically excludes J Classes.
This specifically means someone with a Merc 20H on a SidCraft might be running against a Merc 44XS on an Arltralite runabout.
2) Each boat must meet the rules for its individual class such as minimum weight.
3) Passing is only allowed on the outside.
4) Points are awarded for the Grand Prix class, not the individual class
5) I can’t think of #5, but I’m sure someone here can.

The intention of Grand Prix is bring something unusual, something fun, something spectator-friendly to the sport. I didn’t go to the (Taunton, Mass?) race where they ran special events for CSR, the time trials and the mini-marathon. But from what I read and heard it was successful. It was fun for drivers and spectators. And it went a long way to bolster bragging rights. It was good for the sport.

If I were a race director, I would schedule Grand Prix to be the last class run each day to allow spectator interest to build during the day and to provide a grand finale to the race day, anticipating that a full field of boats would run and that the winner would be unpredictable.

Objection 1 - We already have too many classes, we need fewer classes.
Grand Prix actually helps reduce the number of small classes run at a local race. A race director could stipulate in the race circular that classes with fewer than X (each race director fills in his own minimum) would run in Grand Prix. The higher the minimum, the fewer small class races would be run, the more boats spill over to Grand Prix.

Objection 2 - Race committees already have the authority to combine classes so Grand Prix isn’t necessary.
Grand Prix is unique in that old and new classes are allowed to run together. It’s unique in that if you are the only person to show up with a boat in your class you are still >>guaranteed<< to race if the Grand Prix class is on the schedule. I’ve seen race directors bend over backwards trying to get a minimum number of boats to allow a class to run and succeed, but I’ve also seen classes cancelled outright to the disappointment of those who were there to race. Grand Prix allows everyone who shows up with a legal stock outboard rig to race in at least one class, Grand Prix, regardless of any other factors.

Objection 3 - Racing small boats like ASH against big boats like CSR is unsafe.
True. But after the collision during milling between two experienced drivers in CSH at Lock Haven this year I realized that, try as we do to make it safe, this sport is anything but safe. No driver will be forced to race Grand Prix, but Grand Prix is available to race rather than not being able to race because a class is cancelled outright. As it has been mentioned in this forum before, it’s up to the individual driver to assess his skills and determine where in the pack he’ll start and run during the race.

Objection 4 - Not awarding class points hurts those chasing points.
True. But if a class is cancelled outright because of lack of boats then no class points are awarded anyway. Grand Prix allows a driver who has spent his money and traveled far to a race the opportunity to do what he came to do -- race!

Objection 5 - If all Stock Outboard classes are allowed to race together in Grand Prix then Grand Prix will be always be won by a DSH or a DSR.
Maybe, maybe not. In Region 4 there are no DSH or DSR. So who would win then? Without mentioning names I happen to know that an experienced driver running a 25SSR can beat a less experienced driver running a CSR. The outcome in Grand Prix would be unpredictable - and fun.

I’ll end this post here, but I can give more examples of why Grand Prix would be beneficial to Stock Outboard racing is subsequent posts.

In considering the future of the sport one thing is for sure: doing nothing solves nothing.

[jsilvestri]

Mark,

Back in the 80's, TRORA, used to run Grand Prix's at most of our races. They were open to any hydro class, A through 1100cc hydro, I believe 5 laps and unlimited amount of entries. We did have quite a few pro boats back then too. It was a lamans start and very exciting to watch, I was to young at the time to participate. There were always different winners and everyone seemed to have fun. This was put on the race schedule as a special event. I think this could still be done today.

[DougMc]

Grand Prix

I like this idea and would probably run the class with my OSY from time to time. If the local clubs thought there were too many classes they could just not put it on the schedule.

[Mark 72@E]

Grand Prix

I like Joe's idea of a LeMans start because it makes the Grand Prix class uniquely different from both a racer's and a spectator's point of view.

Being able to run Grand Prix as a special event is good, but it doesn't accomplish two things:

1) I imagine a special event requires more time to sanction, more paperwork to fill out, and there may be special insurance considerations to address. These would all be reasons for a race committee not to bother with it. As an official class it would be much easier to add Grand Prix to a race schedule.

2) Standardized rules nationwide. Although race committees could modify the Grand Prix as a special event to meet their local needs which is an advantage, if they disallow certain classes to run in the Grand Prix that defeats the stated purpose of the Grand Prix - to guarantee every racer who shows up with a legal rig the abilty to race.

[Dr. Thunder]

Grand Prix?

Back in the late 50's and early 60's we used to call this testing!!!


PS: Would the Grand Prix event exclude boats and drivers that had raced in earlier scheduled events that day? Also, don't many of our race venues lack sufficient pit to water access to accomodate a LeMans type start.

[Mark 72@E]

Grand Prix

Would the Grand Prix event exclude boats and drivers that had raced in earlier scheduled events that day? Also, don't many of our race venues lack sufficient pit to water access to accomodate a LeMans type start.

I could argue the benefits of only allowing boats that had not raced that day but the more I thought about it, I would say "no". The Grand Prix is intended to be "spectacular" and limiting the field to perhaps a few boats would defeat that purpose. Grand Prix would be open to all stock outboard classes. It still could be viewed as a "second chance race" because it could include all the drivers that day who:

couldn't get started
jumped the gun
destroyed a buoy
went for a swim
or otherwise didn't finish a race.

The bigger problem might be what to do if 50 boats sign up to race in Grand Prix. Would that be exciting or a headache?

As I was replying to the thread about the LeMans start I was thinking of Denton, Maryland and whether that small course could handle a LeMans starts. So yes, there would be some sites where running a LeMans start would not be safe or practical. The Grand Prix rule could read that a Lemans start is recommended and preferred for this class however the referee could require a clock start or pace boat start where safety concerns or pit area layout make a LeMans start unsafe or impractical.

[G Stillwill]

The idea of every one getting to run is great as long as their isnt a safety factor involved. Most places we run there isnt enough room for more then 12 boats in a heat except for the bigger lakes. At one time there was a 16 boat limit but I asume it was changed because of to many boats on the course. Next would be the speed differance between boat and most likely they would be grouped per class in a race say the A stocks would be together and so forth just because each class are running around the same speed. Example three or four A's battling for postion and here come a D overtaking them at better then 30 mile an difference and with the limited vission we have now with all the safety gear even glancing to the side you would see the D stock comming as the speed is so much different so someone get run over from behind. I remember Rons post but dont remember all there was to it.