Challenge to Dana Holt, Scott Reed et all

[BP125V]

Friendly challenge for you guys. Please provide me with your club/region roster as it currently stands and what you honestly think it would be after a class combination similar to Dean's (stock only) and Howie's (stock and mod).

I'm not picking on you guys but need your thoughts on this as I honestly can't get my head around how class combo's are a good thing. After what I saw at Rochelle this past weekend I wish I had a few other classes show up! Actually, what I really wish is that more of our current racers showed up - but that is a different story.

1. Combine Stock/Mod commissions.
2. Focus on reducing insurance costs for kneel down categories.

[Hunter]

....I hate to butt in for Scott,but the proof of the pudding you seek was to be found at the NE Mod Divisionals this past weekend in Thompson ,Ct. The showing of mods was rather pathetic, but those that did had a great time. The weekend event was made replete with the addition of stocks and pros.

As for the old Fishers Landing Club....my son and myself are about the only active racers and we are dedicated to the mod fun. I think the evidence is in. It is past time to consolidate resources,brains, etc to help validate both stock and mod.

Hunter III

[dholt]

OK, BP...I'll crunch the numbers and see how it shakes out.

I also have some tweaks to what Howie proposed...and will PM you all the info.

Scott was in Lakemore last weekend...we chatted a bit. He'll be at Grass Lake as well.

D.

[reed28n]

New Profile

I think to get your head around it we need to understand

1. Region 6 is a huge geographical area and can survive as a stand alone
2. Region 1,2 and 3 all need each other and spinkle in help from Canada
3. Region 4 and 5 rely on each other and help from sunseekers from the north

The beauty of Region 6 was displayed this weekend. Not all showed but 16-20 CSH, 11 20SSH, 10 CSR, 8 ASR, 11 ASH, 8-10 25SSR. I understand it was a divisional but I suspect the participation would have been pretty close regardless. Good size fields of very competitive boats.

So, we would need data from Region 1,2 and 3 to understand the impact. I am not offering to be a spokes person for the division but your idea has merrit to go area by area or region or division and forecast a possible profile. Score keepers would have more accurate data to what was actually raced this year and last.

I can tell you if I lived in Michigan, my proposal to fix issues would look miles apart from the region I live in. The landscape is far different.

[JordanE]

www.torc.ca I'll throw my 2c in... We Canadian's love racing, it doesn't seem to matter what we're running we just love it, but we're trying to narrow our focus and build bigger classes, we are also acceptant of any class and or boat that wants to run and will combine if everyone is good with it.

We have run elims this year for the first time in a long time in 2 classes, we have had 8-9 ASH, 8-BCH(crazy canuks and our poppers), as many as 14-20SSH, lots of T850 boats (8-13), FE's, Dmods, Cmods, 25ssh, CSR, ASR we run an outboard drag class with good support, we are hosting racer dinners again (as we will do at Dunnville), we are holding our own 4 race series for points, and racing whatever the heck we can get our hands on... We have no sidewinders here, though they are still welcome to try and beat Dixon.

All I can say is racing is getting much more competitive here, people are getting real serious in the bigger classes, we need to drag as many 25ssh boats out as possible because I love them and my keegan boat is working awesome now (rossman, I don't crack the throttle any more), we are focusing on venues with LOTS OF SPECTATORS, thousands in both Gravenhurst and Dunnville, and we have real sponsors who are putting up thousands in $$$ for our series and events, and here's another key, we are also raising thousands for charity (Tim Horton Children's Foundation) which allows the public and towns to accept us.

We are also focusing more on the event feel, we love all boat racers, and in Gravenhurst hosted a major vintage display on land as well as vintage fly bys on the water. The collection of race boats we had in Gravenhurst both on display and racing was the most I have seen since I started racing in 95, IT WAS A BLAST. Dunnville will be big for us, I challenge all US racers to come join us in our growth, I need more 25ssh boats here!!!!!! We have special TORC 60th anniversary medals for prizes FUN!

[JordanE]

PS: Special thanks to those American's who have supported us, I don't have enough entries to joint sanction.... I apologize for this, maybe next year, but racing is intense, we have a great time, and a giant digital clock that everyone seems to love! Special thanks to B. Rossman, Hunter (yes both ), Rick W., Dave (Clayton fellow), Joe, Chris, Steve N, Dana whose wake I hit 2yrs ago when I tried to squeeze myself into a hole in BCH and kartwheeled out of my boat, and other US driver I am sure I am forgetting who support our events. Lets make Dunnville a big one for us as its close for many of you

The more growth that we see here from new drivers, the more of us you will find there as for many 4 races is not enough

[csh12M]

Combination

I think the combination of Stock and Mod is like putting a band aid on a bullet wound. It might extend the patients life for a few more years, but it will still eventually result in death. We have to take a harder look at the problem and determine how to add 20 racers a year? Our Racer School is good, but we need ten of them running throughout the country. We also need to determine how to improve the value of our product. We need more bang for the buck. Restrictor plates allow you to cut the cost of the sport in half. Two classes for the cost of one rig. As well as racing a class 3 times over two days.

Imagine if Stock Outboard only ran the 302. We put in the restrictor that NBRA does so it is a J Motor, we restrict the current 20SSH just a titch more, we leave the C class where it is, and we put a stinger pipe on it like 500MH for D speeds. That's it! Four classes Hydro and Runabout, based around the same engine. It would cover all the same speed ranges we do today. It would allow a father and son to begin racing in the same rig and the son would just change restrictors when he is ready to step up. If we put in some boat dimensions to insure the J size boats were the same as the C size boats this would work!

I believe something like that would allow us to REALLY grow again. Things like combining Stock and Mod or needing a combined Nationals are not addressing the "real" problem. They are just temporary fix's for the current symptoms.

[JordanE]

My question is will Yamato be sponsoring your sport and are they recognizable to the newcomer? Don't get me wrong, the yamato theory makes total sense but the cool factor is not there, and the motors are intimidating to new people. They need fishing motors and need brands to brag about. The costs involved in racing in the future will only be offset by corporate sponsorship. My direction is focus on the event, become acceptable to the public again, work on major sponsorship, race in big communities that have market influence, make sure it stays a family sport, embrace our heritage as people love vintage, raise money for charity where we can and keep hounding the manufacturers.

The last time racing was really big, it was supported by the manufacturers, we need to bring that back to them. I am also starting to see that there are limitations in volunteer clubs.... mainly everyone is working so d-arn hard to get by these days its a stretch to round up the time needed to really bring an event together. I hate seeing people burn out.

[reed28n]

Stock and Mod

There are many challenges in front of us, but chew on this for a moment. Consolidation or the threat of elimination is difficult for long time supporters of APBA to swallow. There are many racers that will get whatever it takes to be competitive in whatever you want to call the class (I am in that camp), while we still have many that want what they have and want to participate.

The issue is trying to look sexy to people from outside the sport. Potential new racers, advertizers, location business owners, old racer that want to see good racing and old friends.

I am really focused on the stock issue. We have very strong classes and in my opinion we should drive people to those classes. The SORC could make a recommendation that we focus Stock events on our core. Have those core classes run in the same order at the same time at every single event each individual day. Then let the local clubs run what ever else they want for the rest of the day. And take some of our promotional money to endorse clubs that run this format.

The local dirt track does this. Every Saturday at 8:30 your class runs.

[JordanE]

There are many challenges in front of us, but chew on this for a moment. Consolidation or the threat of elimination is difficult for long time supporters of APBA to swallow. There are many racers that will get whatever it takes to be competitive in whatever you want to call the class (I am in that camp), while we still have many that want what they have and want to participate.

The issue is trying to look sexy to people from outside the sport. Potential new racers, advertizers, location business owners, old racer that want to see good racing and old friends.

I am really focused on the stock issue. We have very strong classes and in my opinion we should drive people to those classes. The SORC could make a recommendation that we focus Stock events on our core. Have those core classes run in the same order at the same time at every single event each individual day. Then let the local clubs run what ever else they want for the rest of the day. And take some of our promotional money to endorse clubs that run this format.

The local dirt track does this. Every Saturday at 8:30 your class runs.

I like this...

[JordanE]

One last dream of mine lol... I have a 10yr goal, I want to see a manufacturer step up with a stock fuel injected motor (green for the future.. etec maybe?) Have a 25-35CI block sealed, virgin as the day it came off the line, and controlled by the ecu. Have 3-4 programs available for that ecu from the manufacturer's race department that we can hook up on race site and run it as a 15, 20, 25, or 30... Something like that. The technology is there, just need them to come up with a lighter mid/lower for us.... Even four strokes are way lighter now.

Snowcross went from 440stock/mod, 600 stock/mod, 800 stock/mod to ONLY 600 stock/mod.

Motocross also simplified and now runs only 4strokes.... Cool factor in both of these sports is that you can buy it and ride them at home or race it. Plus the monster energy ladies...

[Howie Nichols]

Bill,
I am open to all opinions on my proposal. Now that I am back home I plan on reviewing all the posts and reply as necessary (your PM's as well). So keep the ideas flowing, discussion is a valuable tool as long as we can then turn it into action....

[reed28n]

Howies Proposal

I ran through the scenerio as Bill requested. I believe if this passed we would still run 18 classes. I don't think this proposal gets us there.

The one battle item would be the BMH. Outside of that from the races I have attended in the last few years I don't see any huge cahnges because of the boats that are raced in our Division.

[BP125V]

exactly

I can tell you if I lived in Michigan, my proposal to fix issues would look miles apart from the region I live in. The landscape is far different.

thanks Scott - you have summed up why I have been pushing back against your proposal, Dean's and now Howie's - they made sense for some areas of the country but not all. Discussing class combo ideas right now will just get people frustrated and even more nervous, and I'm afraid if implemented they will not have the overall effect that we would like - ie more members and a better show (which itself is another topic for another day).

For now let's try to reduce our over head by combining Stock and Mod and working on getting lower insurance costs.

[BP125V]

I ran through the scenerio as Bill requested. I believe if this passed we would still run 18 classes. I don't think this proposal gets us there.

Scott,

would you please send me the info?