Future is Now

[propnuts]

If you want this Periman's feedback...

I think Jeff may have hit it right on the head here. I won't be on the SORC this year, but I trust my representatives to do the right thing.

Just my two cents for Stock Outbored:
Get back to the J A B C D class structure.
You guys race two A classes (A and AX) Pick one
Two B classes (B and 20) Pick one
Two C classes (25 and C) Pick one

[csh2z]

When a person is elected to the commission, by his region membership, is he or she elected to represent the wishes of his current region membership or to do what is best for the future of the category?
Our current system does not provide for continuity for long term planning. It's one thing to say "we need to get a group together, to straighten this stuff out". It's another thing to implement and enforce that effort. Who has the authority within our current system to make that happen?
Until some changes are made in respect to our methodogy, NOTHING WILL CHANGE. Every year a new commission is elected. Every two years new leadership to reverse what happened during the prior administration.
30 years ago, I was on the SORC. We have the same issues now as we did then. Could you imagine a business running this way?

[sam]

Wasn't the Mercury 10XS mess the last 'straw' for Mercury Marine? Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't they told that the engine wasn't wanted (approved) after they made 100 of them?

I think it was more like 10 or 12. More a case of Merc bullying in something than APBA rejecting ... the motor size and power didn't fit any class, a "duh" event.

30 years ago, I was on the SORC. We have the same issues now as we did then. Could you imagine a business running this way?

Yes, it was called General Motors

[Dave M]

Pat - Some Truths

Sam you must be older than me. One of my points was Mod type mercs ran quite a bit in Pro first and then when the foreign engines showed up and were lite years faster than Merc's the Mod catergory was given steam and grew
in numbers running on gas only,should let them run Menthenol.
This was nice for some who for what ever reason did not wish to compete with the foreign engines. I believe that making engine manufactures compete against each other is very healthy for boatracing--stock and mod do the reverse and protect engines in classes (don't understand this)

Pat, just to give some body to your thoughts. in MOD, many many years ago the then called VP now called Chairman, passed a rule that mandates no new engines can be introduced into MOD with pipes meaning I believe megaphones. This was over 20 years ago. Mod guys like to build engines. We like to change the internals around, etc, and make it loud. I think this might be a small part of why the core mod group does not let new engines in. You open up new engines and they suddenly obsolete current engines. Best example I can give you is the current 850CCM class. There are some new modifications being done to the OMC 3 holers that have the speeds way to high. It is more expensive to race that class than it is 350CCH pro with new equipment. And this is with a out of production engine !!! At least in PRO it is current production motors !!

back to the thread. Good luck Dean. Hope you get the stockers straightend out.

[14-H]

National vs Local Strategy

Please excuse my delay for chiming in.

There is no reason that the format Dean proposes won't work. It will, however, only significantly impact The Northeast and the midwest. The west coast and the south and south east run vastly different programs than are run in the midwest and the northeast.

I am in complete agreement that we have too many classes. The problem with the proposals in the near past (and, I believe, the reason for the change in the SORC last year) was that there was a national mandate eliminating motors from classes that many regions relied upon for entries in classes. There is no reason, however, that local races cannot implement this strategy now and no reason that it has to be limited to stock outboard.

For instance, Three Rivers Outboard used to run a two-cylinder Mod Hydro, two-cylinder Mod Runabout, Four cylinder Mod-Hydro, Four Cylinder Mod Runabout race schedule. This year at Lock haven, BSR was combined with BMR. 25SSR was combined with FER!!!

Three and Four boat heats are VERY BORING. We do it Dayton ONLY because our main objective at Dayton is running for records. If I were running a non-record run race, we would fill the field with class combination until we got as close to 12 boats on the water as possible. All that has to be done is separate scoring for each class.

I do agree, however, on a national level, that we need to reduce the number of classes. We have 2 A Hydro classes, 2 A runabout classes, 2 B Hydro classes, 2 C Hydro classes, and 2 C Runabout classes in Stock Outboard. There is no need for this.

On the other hand, NONE of this equipment should be eliminated. It should have a home in Stock where it is still competitive. The members believe this. It is the message from last fall's election. I am still committed to making sure that happens along with making sure that new equipment has a home and is competitive as well.

[STEVE FRENCH]

Just like John said 30 year racer with 30 year old engines.. This is NOT about Us now racing, this is about what our kids will be racing and bringing NEW PEOPLE to this sport that does not already have a garage full of antique engines, For the FUTURE... The mentality needs to look to the FUTURE... I really Hope Dean Pulls this off...
I am about ready to race a stock class before the season end to help support him with just more than words... Alexandra is coming up any one have a ride for me? COR Classic Outboard Racing is looking to grow their Membership...

Mike

Here ya go Mike .......turn-key WIN'n rig....just in time ta rub paint at Alexandia........ with Dana.

https://hydroracer.net/forums/showthread.php?t=19971

Super price......Need a pen?

PS....How old is dat engine?

[raceright]

Please excuse my delay for chiming in.

There is no reason that the format Dean proposes won't work. It will, however, only significantly impact The Northeast and the midwest. The west coast and the south and south east run vastly different programs than are run in the midwest and the northeast.

I am in complete agreement that we have too many classes. The problem with the proposals in the near past (and, I believe, the reason for the change in the SORC last year) was that there was a national mandate eliminating motors from classes that many regions relied upon for entries in classes. There is no reason, however, that local races cannot implement this strategy now and no reason that it has to be limited to stock outboard.

For instance, Three Rivers Outboard used to run a two-cylinder Mod Hydro, two-cylinder Mod Runabout, Four cylinder Mod-Hydro, Four Cylinder Mod Runabout race schedule. This year at Lock haven, BSR was combined with BMR. 25SSR was combined with FER!!!

Three and Four boat heats are VERY BORING. We do it Dayton ONLY because our main objective at Dayton is running for records. If I were running a non-record run race, we would fill the field with class combination until we got as close to 12 boats on the water as possible. All that has to be done is separate scoring for each class.

I do agree, however, on a national level, that we need to reduce the number of classes. We have 2 A Hydro classes, 2 A runabout classes, 2 B Hydro classes, 2 C Hydro classes, and 2 C Runabout classes in Stock Outboard. There is no need for this.

On the other hand, NONE of this equipment should be eliminated. It should have a home in Stock where it is still competitive. The members believe this. It is the message from last fall's election. I am still committed to making sure that happens along with making sure that new equipment has a home and is competitive as well.

Everyone has a different idea as to what is boring. But because people do not wish to or are willing to spend money on new equiptment is a very poor if not selfish reason to not allow new stuff into a class. I don't know but this might be harmfull to all of boatracing--in most pro classes if it shows up in the proper engine size it runs.
Don't know about OPC or inboard (think inboard is mostly a engine size catergory) think the same about offshore,and unlimited.
But double duty on a engine in most catergory kills engines. If you are doing it in stock engines must be pretty durable.

[Kev43V]

[QUOTE=14-H;166026]Please excuse my delay for chiming in.

I do agree, however, on a national level, that we need to reduce the number of classes. We have 2 A Hydro classes, 2 A runabout classes, 2 B Hydro classes, 2 C Hydro classes, and 2 C Runabout classes in Stock Outboard. There is no need for this.
Sorry Ed But no we do not.
In Stock: we have one A hydro, one B hydro, 3 C hydro's and 2 C runabouts

[reed28n]

Error

Please excuse my delay for chiming in.

There is no reason that the format Dean proposes won't work. It will, however, only significantly impact The Northeast and the midwest. The west coast and the south and south east run vastly different programs than are run in the midwest and the northeast.

I am in complete agreement that we have too many classes. The problem with the proposals in the near past (and, I believe, the reason for the change in the SORC last year) was that there was a national mandate eliminating motors from classes that many regions relied upon for entries in classes. There is no reason, however, that local races cannot implement this strategy now and no reason that it has to be limited to stock outboard.

For instance, Three Rivers Outboard used to run a two-cylinder Mod Hydro, two-cylinder Mod Runabout, Four cylinder Mod-Hydro, Four Cylinder Mod Runabout race schedule. This year at Lock haven, BSR was combined with BMR. 25SSR was combined with FER!!!

Three and Four boat heats are VERY BORING. We do it Dayton ONLY because our main objective at Dayton is running for records. If I were running a non-record run race, we would fill the field with class combination until we got as close to 12 boats on the water as possible. All that has to be done is separate scoring for each class.

I do agree, however, on a national level, that we need to reduce the number of classes. We have 2 A Hydro classes, 2 A runabout classes, 2 B Hydro classes, 2 C Hydro classes, and 2 C Runabout classes in Stock Outboard. There is no need for this.

On the other hand, NONE of this equipment should be eliminated. It should have a home in Stock where it is still competitive. The members believe this. It is the message from last fall's election. I am still committed to making sure that happens along with making sure that new equipment has a home and is competitive as well.

You do not have facts or figures to back up you statements. There was a change and the members spoke to replace some of the commission and commission elected a new chairman. This in part was due to the fear of some change. Primarily the removal of the Mercury from the A class.

I am not sure you have polled all of the members to make the satement "The members believe this."

We might as easily say that the change of direction by last year's voting was the single reason for the serious down turn in boat racing numbers for 2010.

Reflecting on the past and looking to the future is what we need. Leadership means tough decisions to move our group forward. Leadership means planning.

We don't need our commission to throw a bunch of boats on the water and then meet once per year to completely change the handicapping rules in all of the classes based on hear say and stories from a vocal miniority of people that perceived one motor or one boat to be dominant on one course.

That is what you are promoting. Based on your pleasing ways we will have two classes of everything and 3 or 4 boats racing in a perpetual jubbled mess of a race program, with incomprehensible rules and uninspectable weights heights and cc's. We will be locked in back yard ponds with no hope of ever attracting new racers, because the casual sports fans will not be able to follow what is happening.

[Boatracer4fun]

Please excuse my delay for chiming in.

There is no reason that the format Dean proposes won't work. It will, however, only significantly impact The Northeast and the midwest. The west coast and the south and south east run vastly different programs than are run in the midwest and the northeast.

I am in complete agreement that we have too many classes. The problem with the proposals in the near past (and, I believe, the reason for the change in the SORC last year) was that there was a national mandate eliminating motors from classes that many regions relied upon for entries in classes. There is no reason, however, that local races cannot implement this strategy now and no reason that it has to be limited to stock outboard.

For instance, Three Rivers Outboard used to run a two-cylinder Mod Hydro, two-cylinder Mod Runabout, Four cylinder Mod-Hydro, Four Cylinder Mod Runabout race schedule. This year at Lock haven, BSR was combined with BMR. 25SSR was combined with FER!!!

Three and Four boat heats are VERY BORING. We do it Dayton ONLY because our main objective at Dayton is running for records. If I were running a non-record run race, we would fill the field with class combination until we got as close to 12 boats on the water as possible. All that has to be done is separate scoring for each class.

I do agree, however, on a national level, that we need to reduce the number of classes. We have 2 A Hydro classes, 2 A runabout classes, 2 B Hydro classes, 2 C Hydro classes, and 2 C Runabout classes in Stock Outboard. There is no need for this.

On the other hand, NONE of this equipment should be eliminated. It should have a home in Stock where it is still competitive. The members believe this. It is the message from last fall's election. I am still committed to making sure that happens along with making sure that new equipment has a home and is competitive as well.

Why dont we make a new class for both hydro and runabout, call it open hydro and open runabout.

Allow all 5 motors, Y80,Y102,Y202,Y302, SW

It will keep the entries up and will give somebody another class to run with the equipment they have.

[sam]

We want less classes not more. Which classes will be eliminated by this proposal?

[reed28n]

Statistics

Dana has always done a great job of posting participation numbers, what we really need is data to support a plan to move forward not feelings.

The legislative side of our democracy should never have a judicial minded leader.

[raceright]

Believe it or not the oldest outboards raced are in the Pro Catergory--engines from the 20's and 30's I believe. They have evolved to run different areas of the country and at the nationals--these classes are pretty much run buy committee of drivers, they sort of make there own rules and leave the commission alone suggest you do the same with engines over 25 years old.
The commission has its hands full and does not have or need to spend time on this.
Suggest commission spends more time on engines that are currently in production and available--sending older engines to a sort of antique stock outboard committee to do what ever they wish.

Pat Wright

[Art K]

Combined Classes

At NBRA almost all of our classes are combined, stock & mod running together. We put this structure together 7 years ago. In that time we have made very few changes to equalize competition. It works for us, and I believe it would work for APBA. At most of our races you see 10 to 12 classes running. We generally start at !.00PM and on the road by 5.00 pm on Sun. Now you ask how do we pay for it with so few classes? We sell our races, we actually ask the sponsors for money to cover expenses, prize and tow money. Entry fees are typically $25 15 10 5. You guys have good product sell it.
Art K

[oldracer]

My 2 cents input. I believe the stock catagory should go back to the basic J,A,B,C and D classes. Maybe then a program running 3 heats like the pros
would help draw more racers from out of the regions to run.
Again just my 2 cents worth.