Future is Now

[CSR4C]

Yamato 25ssr vs CSR

I'll have to take Greg's info on the speed of the restricted and non restricted Yamatos and run with it. Mine is about 2 off of the non restricted motor but I am also 25-30 pounds over the weight limit.

This might be a viable option for a smaller guy that doesn't want 50 plus pounds of lead in a boat.

Tim

Adding a restrictor to a motor & adding lead to a boat does the same thing - slow down accelleration.
Have a certin size restrictor = x # of weight.

Darrell

[Dave M]

Support

Dean,

While I don't race stock, I like your format. ANYTHING to make the day shorter and keep costs around the same would help. We simply can't sell what we are doing now, so something needs changed. Versions of your idea have been kicked around for the last ten years, maybe someone should actually kick for a field goal for once. Time to chit or get off the pot.

[jeff55v]

Just my two cents for Stock Outbored:
Get back to the J A B C D class structure.
You guys race two A classes (A and AX) Pick one
Two B classes (B and 20) Pick one
Two C classes (25 and C) Pick one

[oldracer]

Have to agree with Jeff.

[sam]

Jeff, that took guts to say and I agree. In more than one way it adds to the time it takes to run the race day and again ... often the guys not found in patrol boats or the judge's stand.

[dholt]

As I made clear...Stock needs to take steps to improve. But we don't exist in a vacuum. With nearly all weekend races a Stock/Mod/J format...what will be done in the other categories to improve?

What classes are really viable on their own? Where can improvements be made?

[RLR]

watching from afar

I love the fact that you guys are willing to take this head on and I like Pat Wright feel about the Title Series commitment as he does, that six to seven races per year are about right for us. If the guys want a few more, I know that some of the clubs will put on a few Pro classes when you run.

We try to give about a 4 hour show to the sponsors and this has worked well for them and us. We split into two halves, have one change of patrol boats, have the same set of judges on the stand, have a Pit Boss second to none who gets us on and off the water, and the program runs smoothly for the most part.

The number of heats a driver gets to run each weekend has been talked about and our three heat format allows each driver at least two heats, if we have more than 12 and 3 to the top 12. Some classes have more than 12 and some do not, but everyone gets 3 heats. We give an all day test session on Friday, we always try to give a couple of hours of test time on Sat. and about 30 minutes Sunday, so everyone gets time on the water.

We in fact have voted to limit the number of classes in the Title Series, has it hurt some, yes, has it given rise to more drivers in other classes, no doubt. We have limited the number of races to ensure that we get good turnouts at most of our races.

You guys race two A classes (A and AX) Pick one
Two B classes (B and 20) Pick one
Two C classes (25 and C) Pick one

I'm with Jeff on this one, run what is the strongest if you are not going to co-ordinate race dates.

I did see a posting that talked about club races and co-ordination of race dates. This is the biggest answer to me of what is going on. When we ran Mod's in Illinois, we co-ordinated every date with IOA and ran eliminations in many of the classes over the years. We need to have a CZAR,oops, I think we have too many of those now, but we need to be better at picking some dates where we can get support from a couple of clubs, instead of having two or even three races a couple hundred miles apart. We can make that work.
__________________
Ray

[raceright]

Mod pro

Dana
About 1963 there was no mod category--all modified mercs were ran in the alkies,along came Konig,Anzani,Cresent and Quincy Loopers--killed the 20H and all the other piped Merc H's. A short time later some of the guys who still wanted to run piped Merc's started the Mod's. Good idea,maybe maybe not depends on your idea of what good is.

At this time Stock outboard would only run American made engines.This changed about 1976 with the influx of the Yamato 80 that was origionaly a Novice class ran only in Pro.
Buy now you should know that Merc stopped and stock outboard through out the American only rule. So taking engines from one hand and running them in the other hand is nothing new.
I'm going to try and have the Pro commission allow the three cylinder jonrude
to be run on alchol and be legal in 500 runabout next year to give some more competition to the engine mfg. now in the class.
Stock should try and do the same outside the box thinking.

[sam]

There was Mod back in the 1960's, but it was not in APBA. The forerunner of AOF, NOA had a large group of mod racers. For a short time in the 1950's there was mod in APBA, but it never caught on like it did with NOA. When NOA wound down around 1970, Lyle Mason and some others brought much of the old NOA mod group into APBA while the anti-APBA group formed AOF.

[raceright]

There was Mod back in the 1960's, but it was not in APBA. The forerunner of AOF, NOA had a large group of mod racers. For a short time in the 1950's there was mod in APBA, but it never caught on like it did with NOA. When NOA wound down around 1970, Lyle Mason and some others brought much of the old NOA mod group into APBA while the anti-APBA group formed AOF.

Sam you must be older than me. One of my points was Mod type mercs ran quite a bit in Pro first and then when the foreign engines showed up and were lite years faster than Merc's the Mod catergory was given steam and grew
in numbers running on gas only,should let them run Menthenol.
This was nice for some who for what ever reason did not wish to compete with the foreign engines. I believe that making engine manufactures compete against each other is very healthy for boatracing--stock and mod do the reverse and protect engines in classes (don't understand this)

[STEVE FRENCH]

Is there any 25SSH........B guys out there who's blood pressure is rise'n?..........Kind'a erks me after watch'n dees two classes werk soo hard ta come back.....Also some of the best race'n ta watch has been from these ......"Motor-Box HUGGER's" ?!

Better stand up soon....or start look'n for a spot in MOD?........But If we combine da two catagories.......Will ya have a home?

Anyone like the idea of keep'n the 15H/R in B and add'n the 20 Sidewinder?
Gott'a be a better ride than with the Y-80's?.....
Move da current 15/B Sidewinder to .......A........give some kind'a credit/rule reprieve to convert them to A specs?....(How do the A and B (15 CI) Sidewinders compare today?)

Move the current Y-80 to C .....or A-MOD (in stock form).........OPPS I think I just heard Tom 40M lose/spit-up..... his coffee.....Can ya imagine da ride with that slop-water Tom?..........Dana/Matt----Thoughts?

25SSH....Resticted to CSH speed and exspected ta run in their "plow field"........REALLY????....What'a ya tink....Brian R.....Joey Z....Jeff B ???
At the very least....Leave'm alone..........25SSH usually communicates among themselves and has 5+ rigs or they don't show/pull engines from motor box.... at all.....At club level they are still a valuable asset.....Time will eventually make em fade away.
Tried/asked ta run ya in BMH....but that went no where.......dang.....CMH/DMH-----REALLY?

So what is THE desired bottom line here?

A----Merc/15-Sidewinder
B----20 Sidewinder
C----302
D----Tahotsu

Everyone else........welcome ta MOD?...Kind'a extreme/radical ?..............maybe........maybe not.......Go back and re-read your Commission's/commission candidate's posts here in this tread........What's in your "motor box".

I understand the need ta look to the future....but sometimes, especially in a lean economy, ya just might want ta tie a knot and just ....HANG ON......... ta what ya have....?
Think about your loss/gain ratio....and how soon it WILL..take to recover?

Who will set up a couple helmet cams at the National meet'ns dis year?.....What do ya wann'a bet they won't be allow'd?.......

OK ...I....... "SNAP'D".....anyone else?

Back to da "mushroom cave".........Pass da pop-corn/coffee+Kesler (Irish)....... (and da ammunition).......Think I'll go "hug" my motor box and make putt-putt sounds..........

[Mike Beegle]

I believe that making engine manufactures compete against each other is very healthy for boatracing--stock and mod do the reverse and protect engines in classes (don't understand this)

Just like John said 30 year racer with 30 year old engines.. This is NOT about Us now racing, this is about what our kids will be racing and bringing NEW PEOPLE to this sport that does not already have a garage full of antique engines, For the FUTURE... The mentality needs to look to the FUTURE... I really Hope Dean Pulls this off...
I am about ready to race a stock class before the season end to help support him with just more than words... Alexandra is coming up any one have a ride for me? COR Classic Outboard Racing is looking to grow their Membership...

Mike

[sam]

There's a down side to every angle. Mike, have you considered how expensive motorcycle racing was when the manufacturers came out with new faster bikes every year? Twice a year?

You are talking about increasing costs by a magnitude of 10 times the current per year cost. Ask one of the top PWC teams what their costs are per year. I bet their 5 year turnover rate of racers is astronomical and makes our number look great. They make up on the new guys coming in, but they exit just as fast or faster. This idea is DOA.

There has to be a balance between the need to keep new equipment available and continuity to let people run the same stuff for a few years or decade.

[Mike Beegle]

Sam,
Im not arguing that fact at all... Im living it with the 120.. We have Manufacture support with Mercury, Not so much for the 120 engine but we do with the new Optimax..
The 120 is a 2.0 liter engine carb and the New Optimax is a 2.5 liter direct oil and fuel injected.. The core group of 120 guys dont want the engine and oppose Running it with us.. When i say they dont want it I mean they have a petition to get rid of it.. And i see their point..
The cost of the Optimax is the what I have in my entire rig.. Do i oppose the engine No, Do i agree with them driving around us on the outside on the rev limiter at 8,000 R.P.M. No ..
Shep and Jackob ran one hell of a race in kankakee with Shep running the Opti and Jackob with the 120, The 120 engine prevailed and took the checker..

Outboard manufactures are Not producing New engines for us yearly If at all, but when one does we best find a way to embrace it.. And not tell them we dont want it..

Boat racing is not always the best or fastest engine wins... Its alot driver..

How many guy reading this remember going to cart to cart with k.ladd? Seem to remember him driving around about 20 of us and lappin the field more than once, and we all had the same carts... Some people are just drivers.. Its not all about CC's or lap times...

[Heliarc]

.......... Outboard manufactures are Not producing New engines for us yearly If at all, but when one does we best find a way to embrace it.. And not tell them we dont want it...............

Wasn't the Mercury 10XS mess the last 'straw' for Mercury Marine? Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't they told that the engine wasn't wanted (approved) after they made 100 of them?