New DSH

[daveracerdsh]

Here is a strange one. I have usually used 4 mil Okume plywood for DSH projects..3 mil is in my opinion a little thin. But, that being said, I was very unhappy with the way the decks looked when I was done with project. The epoxy did not lay down right (it cured while I was brushing it on), boat ended up 20lbs to heavy, and so on. So, with the last race being canceled, I felt I had time to take decks off and start from scratch. This time, I used 3 mile Luan marine plywood, very light stuff. I was very happy with the way it looked when I was done....all joints are tight fighting etc. I also changed epoxys...went with System 3 instead of Tap plastics. I sanded decks lightly, using lighter and lighter grits...finishing with 320. I mixed epoxy correctly, using a scale I bought, to get the correct ratio...which with Sytem 3 is 2 parts resin to one part hardner. Epoxy layed down very nice...I used a foam roller, then a bristle brush to even things out and get rid of the little bubbles that formed. The next day, something like 24 hours later, epoxy was firm to the touch, and sanded down fine. I used 150, then 220. I taped off some stripes, and then started having problems. The paint would not adhere to the epoxy...it acted like it had wax on it. I eventually got it to stick but rubbing the primer on, then painting color over the primer. Took tape off, it looked ok. Next day, I again re sanded hull....then tried to apply System 3 Clear coat. The stuff would not adhere...no matter what I tried. I went out and bought wax and grease remover...no luck. Re sanded, and tried to wipe it down with Acetone..no luck. Tried de-natured alcohol...no luck. At this point...I was like...what on earth do I do now. I went to store and bought some Spar Varnish...really good stuff. Same result...decks acted like the had either silicone on them or wax of something. However...when I used a foam roller....it sort of stuck....but was not totaly smooth. when I used a foam brush it would not work. I have never seen anything like this...sorry for the long message...But I am totaly stumped. I called System 3...they were no help. Ideas anybody?

[pro350hydro]

Why not just use West Systems for Epoxy? Are these other epoxy's cheaper?

Nice work, boat looks good.

[daveracerdsh]

Epoxy

I have used West system in the past...but I hate those cheesy little pumps. I have looked around...most epoxys are very close price wise.

[pro350hydro]

I have used West system in the past...but I hate those cheesy little pumps. I have looked around...most epoxys are very close price wise.

Yes, the pumps can "suck", but you can also measure by scale like your already doing. And I have never had any west dry on me while applying it.

If your worried about it drying while applying it, use the slow hardner

[daveracerdsh]

Epoxy

Had no problems this time around with stuff drying too fast...like I said nothing would adhere to it. It is almost like there is silicone imbedded in the epoxy.

[propnuts]

System 3 is no good IMO

I tried it with fairly similar results. I hate the pumps and price, but the West epoxy is really consistent. On top of that you can choose slow cure hardners that work really well.

[Team 12R]

Looks Great Dave

can't wait to see it next weekend. "NO" i'm not repaired. taking it to drew in the next couple days.

[mercguy]

Here is a strange one. I have usually used 4 mil Okume plywood for DSH projects..3 mil is in my opinion a little thin. But, that being said, I was very unhappy with the way the decks looked when I was done with project. The epoxy did not lay down right (it cured while I was brushing it on), boat ended up 20lbs to heavy, and so on. So, with the last race being canceled, I felt I had time to take decks off and start from scratch. This time, I used 3 mile Luan marine plywood, very light stuff. I was very happy with the way it looked when I was done....all joints are tight fighting etc. I also changed epoxys...went with System 3 instead of Tap plastics. I sanded decks lightly, using lighter and lighter grits...finishing with 320. I mixed epoxy correctly, using a scale I bought, to get the correct ratio...which with Sytem 3 is 2 parts resin to one part hardner. Epoxy layed down very nice...I used a foam roller, then a bristle brush to even things out and get rid of the little bubbles that formed. The next day, something like 24 hours later, epoxy was firm to the touch, and sanded down fine. I used 150, then 220. I taped off some stripes, and then started having problems. The paint would not adhere to the epoxy...it acted like it had wax on it. I eventually got it to stick but rubbing the primer on, then painting color over the primer. Took tape off, it looked ok. Next day, I again re sanded hull....then tried to apply System 3 Clear coat. The stuff would not adhere...no matter what I tried. I went out and bought wax and grease remover...no luck. Re sanded, and tried to wipe it down with Acetone..no luck. Tried de-natured alcohol...no luck. At this point...I was like...what on earth do I do now. I went to store and bought some Spar Varnish...really good stuff. Same result...decks acted like the had either silicone on them or wax of something. However...when I used a foam roller....it sort of stuck....but was not totaly smooth. when I used a foam brush it would not work. I have never seen anything like this...sorry for the long message...But I am totaly stumped. I called System 3...they were no help. Ideas anybody?

just use West System from now on............the pumps work just fine, but I replace them after each gallon of 105 I use.................I have finished a **** load of boats and will remain with West System..........is it more expensive? Yes, but it is tried and true and leaves great results...............and the 207 Hardner for finish work ROCKS!!!!!!!!! sand it smooth prior to painting and spray away...............

[ricochet112]

try elmers white glue...

[Smiley]

Problem with paint not adhering to epoxy? Also bonding two surfaces together that have epoxy on the surface without proper preparation causes the same problem. When building fiberglass aircraft components with epoxy/fiberglass layups we cover the wetted surface with dacron cloth. This dacron must be wetted through. When the epoxy cures a waxy substance comes to the surface on top of the dacron. You peel the dacron away and you have a clean surface with no wax ready for the next layup or bonding or sanding preparatory for primer and painting. Remember to peel the dacron cloth from the covered surface. IT does not bond well and if you build a structural component with dacron in it; it will fail.

Hope this gives you a possible solution.

Bob Smiley

[johnsonm50]

I have used West system in the past...but I hate those cheesy little pumps. I have looked around...most epoxys are very close price wise.

I gotta admit I didnt think much of the pumps either but had mix trouble once, read that there is an 8% error factor in mixing & bought them. No problem since & have been using the same ones for several years. Good Luck on fixing that & whatever you do with it. Ive heard that scouring powder is good for cleaning off the wax residue before sanding & that sanding itself pushes contaminates in.

[ZUL8TR]

epoxy problems

[QUOTE=daveracerdsh;140953]Here is a strange one.

Maybe this FAQ from System 3 will help?

http://www.systemthree.com/faqs.asp

You might have not waited long enough for the epoxy to full cure and are still experiencing amine release which is a slick residue from epoxy cure. Some epoxies do not have amine release. When you did the mix by weight does System 3 provide the recommended weight for the mix. Usually the mixes are volume based and by weight the specific gravity of the resin and the hardener need to be accounted for.

What is this "3 mile Luan marine plywood"? Where did you get it? Was it stamped with a discription of the glue used? The okoume ply has a WBP (water and boil proof) glue laminate and is usually BS 1088 certified.

http://www.worldpanel.com/bs1088.htm

Still I always take a piece of the ply and give it the boil on the stove test for at least an hour. Rather do that than construct and have a delamination failure.

[bill boyes]

Dave, I have Never had a problem with System Three. I use nbr 2 hardner and it works for me. Nbr 1 is just to hot.
With bare wood I seal the wood with epoxy thinned with a little De-Natured alcohol.
Second coat apply epoxy with a foam roller and brush. Use a foam brush to flow out. Never never ever use Acetone. Clean brushes with Lacquer thinner. throw the foam roller and brushes away.
Do Not apply in the sun always in a falling temp. Like in the evening.
What type of tack rag do you use or do you use one? A clean rag with De-Natured alcohol works well or even Lacquer thinner. NEVER use Acetone!!!
As ZUL8TR said you may not have let the epoxy cure. With the Seattle climate may have an effect. Also the wood you chose. Run a test on both the luan and Okume. something is not right here.

[ZUL8TR]

Epoxy cleaning tip

[QUOTE=bill boyes;140986]................ Clean brushes with Lacquer thinner. throw the foam roller and brushes away...................


When the epoxy is still wet on the brushes and other tools I clean them with cheap white vinigar (don't know about the foam rollers and brushes). Works great, is much less toxic than laquer thinner and it is also gentle on the skin.

[bill boyes]

White vinegar! Never thought of that. Will try it. Thanks for the tip.