321 Yamato in 302SSH

[seanp3]

Interesting video seeing a side by side comparison. Just eyeballing both it almost appears the 321 out accelerates the 302. This could be due to a slight variation of positioning on the course - I don't know how you can match up each video identically. Top end seems to be identical which would suggest they perform at top end nearly the same using the same prop & setup. It will be interesting to find out if the 321 can possibly handle a bit more prop than the 302 for possibly more top end.

[Matt Dagostino]

I would have to comment here and say that in my opinion the wife drives it much better than you Mr Chairman.....with all due respect..)

[Jeff Brewster 59s]

My wife and I have run our motor a lot in two straight seasons and it has not lost speed or compression. I will not refresh it this winter. Heck, I still haven't checked the timing or touched the carb!
It has been discussed at length when the 302 should leave the class. The committee and SORC made a good choice to let a year go by before making any decisions ( and avoid a rash decision they would regret in the future)

[Ram4x4]

Here is what you are asking for. Same driver, course, day, boat, fuel and prop. The 300SSH Committee and the SORC has analyzed this at length for several months now in preparation for their decision. (along with many other items of data and opinion)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9_I...ature=youtu.be
(special thanks to the Lisius family, Elek Hutchinson and Mike Deck)

Thanks Jeff, I did go back and see this one from previously.

Very close overall. With the 302 not being made anymore and with them that close in performance, I think the decision was a good one. If resealing 302's is being stopped, it's only a matter of time before they fall out of the class due to attrition. The only question is, how long will a semi fresh sealed 302 last? One season, two, three?

Are there any thoughts on setting an absolute expiration date for running sealed 302's in the class?

[Jeff Brewster 59s]

Based on the so-far published specs/data, the comparative videos, and tests, it looks as though the two are very, very closely matched (they are both rated at the same HP, the only real difference being the RPM/torque curves). I have to wonder if other factors with the boat will make more of a difference. Weight, shape/design, engine tuning, etc.

I don't recall seeing any tests posted where a 302 and a 321 were both put on the same boat with the same drive and tests done to compare average speeds/lap times. That might be interesting to see and it would need to be several series of laps with each to get a decent average sample.

Here is what you are asking for. Same driver, course, day, boat, fuel and prop. The 300SSH Committee and the SORC has analyzed this at length for several months now in preparation for their decision. (along with many other items of data and opinion)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9_I...ature=youtu.be
(special thanks to the Lisius family, Elek Hutchinson and Mike Deck)

[Jeff Brewster 59s]

Who sells the 2 bld. props used in this class?

The propellers are sold as part of the sealed engine package and not sold separately.

[Ram4x4]

I have a dog in the fight - a 302 used in 3 races this past season / what happens if the 321 is slower than the 302 ???

Based on the so-far published specs/data, the comparative videos, and tests, it looks as though the two are very, very closely matched (they are both rated at the same HP, the only real difference being the RPM/torque curves). I have to wonder if other factors with the boat will make more of a difference. Weight, shape/design, engine tuning, etc.

I don't recall seeing any tests posted where a 302 and a 321 were both put on the same boat with the same drive and tests done to compare average speeds/lap times. That might be interesting to see and it would need to be several series of laps with each to get a decent average sample.

[Howie Nichols]

Chris,
I believe Vic Brinkman makes the prop that you get when purchasing an engine.

[crfabbro2F]

Who sells the 2 bld. props used in this class?

[Fastjack]

I have a dog in the fight - a 302 used in 3 races this past season / what happens if the 321 is slower than the 302 ???

[DtwSailor]

Dean, and others. this is peaking on my own thoughts and not that of the 302 Advisory committee.

I agree that this should be only be a one motor class. Let's make that a very strong point up front.

However, you may not be aware that we did spend quite a bit of testing over the course of last year. In fact my boat was run half the time with a 321 motor and a 302 motor. GPS data that I have collected shows them to be very similar, so that is why I agreed to go with the recommendations for a temporary allowance of both motors. the idea is to phase out the 302 from the class but we can't leave the new guys out. For those entering the sport, this will bring down the price of existing sealed 302 motors, and the recommendation was that there will be no more sealing of 302's moving forward, just 321. Of course if you have a sealed 302 (as I do) you can get it tuned and resealed. I might not this year, and run it in other classes.

To show you I'm not talking hypothetical, take a look for yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9_I9SHm7UU

and I (302) and Elek (321) in race conditions (one day with 302 and one day with 321, same weight and setup) Fall Grass Lake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Dh0UtfERrY

[Howie Nichols]

I know I as well as a few others agree with Don. The 321 should be the only motor in the class but as said we don't know how many or when they will all arrive....

[csh12M]

Don, thank you for the thorough communication. I agree with all points of your thought process and that makes the decision to include both motors make more sense. I think you response "word for word" should be better communicated to all the 300H as the direction SORC is heading. The inclusion is because of a motor availability problem and not a belief that two motors should be in the class any longer than necessary. Thank you for taking the time to communicate it in more detail.

[daveracerdsh]

I think u have it right Don.

[Big Don]

Dean, I’m only speaking for myself at this time.

I was going to vote NO on this because I 100% believe this should be a 1 engine class. I believe there should be a deadline of when that is going to happen. Even if the engines run darn close to identical on the course, with there clearly being a difference in looks and sound we cannot have any perceived differences. Once I heard that Ricky only had 5 engines and that Mike Ward was not expecting his shipment until around June, I quickly changed my mind on how I was voting. Not having engines available for the class to grow is worse in my opinion.

The problem is, what do we do for a date of when it will be a 1 engine class.

If we said 1 year or 2 years and we can'’t meet that deadline, then what? Change it again? My thoughts and comment on the conference calls were this…, let’s make the 321 a legal engine and then figure out what we are going to do about availability and a date. The problem as I see it is the 321’s are also legal in our other Yamato classes so even if Ricky got let’s say 25 engines. We can’t allocate them all to the 300SS class. Heck, at this rate it might take 5 years to get enough engines. Plus my understanding is Europe is going to need engines and we may not be able to get enough out of Rick or Mike in 2 years. It’s just not known yet.

We are not sure if we can get 35 conversion kits at the time of the call and hopefully we get that info soon or by Chicago. If Mike Ward says he can have 40 kits available for the class by Chicago I would vote for 11/1/16. If it’s less than 500.00 like we were told (and I believe the source) I don’t think that is out of line. I know it’s a bummer to have to put another 500.00 in an engine that may only be a year old but unfortunately that is the cost of racing.

With that all said, my opinion is, if a person races the 302SSH class they should plan on having to upgrade their current 302 engine or purchasing a 321 engine. Just to when that date is…stay tuned. Once again that is my opinion and not the entire SORC’s opinion.