Some thoughts on race organizations...

[B1PRORACER]

These are some of my thoughts based on my experiences and observations.

Perhaps in this modern era, we are approaching things wrong. The way that APBA had historically run our sport was good in the past. Today our sport has many more competitors for the attention of those people who love motorsports.

My family has been involved in boat racing since 1963. We have raced Stock, Mod and PRO outboards and even an inboard for a few years… In the last two years, my son has been interested in tournament paintball competitions. We travelled to Maryland last fall to compete in his first PSP competition. I was there for the whole three day program. It was an impressive scene. I had plenty of time on my hands to walk around and investigate the scene. I couldn’t help comparing this sport to our boat racing. I compared what was similar, what was better and how they did things differently than we do. I wondered... why can't boat racing do something like this?

PSP stands for Paintball Sports Promotions. It is a money making company. They hire employees who are paid. They make money. This is an important difference. I have included a link to their facebook site. This company promotes the paintball competitions. They do not own anything except a couple of tractor trailers that are full of all of the equipment needed to convert an open field into 6 or 7 individual paintball fields! They hire employees who travel to each site and install the entire infrastructure needed for the tournament event. They have a mobile trailer that is their event office. At the tournament, they had a professional field at the opposite end of the complex that included aluminum grandstands that opened up from two (rented) tractor trailers similar in size to High School football bleachers. In the center and behind the bleachers- a tower with the TV studio. (Yes, the televised the events in a very professional way). Every corner had a lift with a remotely operated TV camera as well as several lower cameras. They provided security for the PRO players….In between the PRO and regular fields were exhibits by almost every paintball equipment manufacturer! Several of them having big tractor trailers that convert into large ….stores!
Another important difference... and remember- PSP is a company. Their product is promoting events. They do a great job and it attracts people to the event. The competitors do not vote on the divisions or the rules. However, it is in the best interest of their company to produce a product that is appealing to both the competitors AND those that are watching. Competitors accept what they offer or they don’t participate. Simple. They get support form the various manufacturers and the competitors. Every event requires money. Money is what makes to world operate.
This PSP concept reminded me of the USTS organization where they decide the classes and the format. The USTS actually acts as a promoter of PRO racing similar to PSP. Perhaps the important difference between the two would be that the USTS in not a money making promotion company. Unfortunately, neither is APBA (or any of those sanctioning organizations).

https://www.facebook.com/pspevents/info

Peter Crowley

[B1PRORACER]

The PSP website is: http://pspevents.com/

It is sometimes beneficial to see how other people do things....!

[csh2z]

It certainly would be difficult to disagree with that as a model. The USTS and NBRA are much closer to making something like that happen than we are in APBA. I've always believed that our sport is only lacking the good old American entrepreneurial spirit and some free market capitalism. Some of you young guys might want to think of the opportunities that could present themselves with the right kind of thinking. Good post, Pete.

[propfxrO84]

A dictatorship is the best way (maybe only way) to have truly successful racing. That is the answer we are looking for, but, unfortunately it will probably never happen. Because for over twenty years I have not seen any boat racers in any division that are ready to turn over their orginatization to any one person or group that make all the rules. I would have a hard time with it myself and I KNOW it would be for the best. If you dont believe me. Please do your own research of all the TOP motorsports and see how much input the drivers/owners have in -day to day operations - race promotion- and RULES- etc. etc. that's all I have to say on the subject..BT

[jeff55v]

A dictatorship is the best way (maybe only way) to have truly successful racing.

I agree with BT 100%.

[krazy karl]

Yeah, but the climate changes. The local dirt track was started by a group of guys who wanted to start racing stock cars. An association was formed and a kind of grass roots racing started with an inexpensive form of street stocks. Everybody had fun including myself as a crew chief and even track steward one year. It kind of got to where we are now and one of the members took over as a promoter as in king. The races are pretty successful but the family atmosphere and fun are gone as are the racers who started the whole thing. Rules change almost every year requiring new more expensive equipment to make it more exciting for the spectators to bring in more hence more money for the promoter. I have attended one race in the last five years and the last I will probably go to because the local guys racing in front of family and friends is gone and the fun is gone. Good racing now? Yes, but not the same. Is this what we want? Maybe, maybe not. Not my choice for sure but I know what I like.
kk
p.s. I have brought a couple of my old dirt track buddies to one of our races and a couple have driven NORCAL 400 boats and have all said this is fun, what racing is supposed to be and what we used to have.

[reed28n]

You covered it all

Looks like the racing was started by a club.

Started to govern itself with rules that evolved as equipment got old.

New equipment was introduced.

Brought in new people, that weren't all part of the original club.

The racing is still going on, with some new equipment, some new people and it is still good racing.

You are little sad because it is not as family oriented as it used to be. We all are. But APBA can have both.

1. Promote a National Profile program with a small number of classes.
2. Host those classes at appointed times at all APBA events.
3. Keep the local classes alive so people that don't want change can still race.

In all of our posts in all of our threads we assume that everyone that races has to be out front, has to compete for national points and is motivated to be on the National stage. That is simply not the case. I think we have hundreds of racers that want to keep the equipment they have, go camping, volunteer, participate and race someone at the race (even though that person may be mid pack or in the back).

I like to race to beat someone and I usually set my sight too high, but at my age and the time I have to prepare I am happy whenever I compete. I want to win when I pull the rope.... but I know that there are guys that spend way more time and resources, that I will race against..... and at the end of the day my girl's dance rectials, piano rectials, musicals and plays are just more important.

Reduce the National classes.
Keep rules that promote local classes.

[reed28n]

Car Cost

Just out of curious... how much did the car cost to build?

Waht is its value noew?

How much would it cost to compete now?

[blueskyracer]

In all of our posts in all of our threads we assume that everyone that races has to be out front, has to compete for national points and is motivated to be on the National stage. That is simply not the case. I think we have hundreds of racers that want to keep the equipment they have, go camping, volunteer, participate and race someone at the race (even though that person may be mid pack or in the back).

I like to race to beat someone and I usually set my sight too high, but at my age and the time I have to prepare I am happy whenever I compete. I want to win when I pull the rope.... but I know that there are guys that spend way more time and resources, that I will race against..... and at the end of the day my girl's dance rectials, piano rectials, musicals and plays are just more important.

That sums up how we go about racing. Thank you for the post

[krazy karl]

Just out of curious... how much did the car cost to build?

Waht is its value noew?

How much would it cost to compete now?

It was my buddy's car and he paid the bills so I don't know how much he spent. He bought it out of Nevada as a roller, so the engine and transmission were the biggest expense, mainly and engine build. The car spent 3 years on a dirt track where bumping and rubbing are the norm and lots of guys with marginal brakes so it was pretty used up at the end of that time. Rules changed with the now promoter and guys were putting lots of money into motors and tube frames and stuff. So instead of spending that kind of money on super stock as it had now become he decided to go mod for almost the same money. It just went out of sight cost wise so he quit after a couple more years. As soon as he gets his life back on track due to other issues he wants to go Sport C and eventually 45's.

kk

[Dave M]

Paid Positions

Didn't APBA try that several years ago ? As I recall they hired a promotional director for each category or region ? I do remember Craig Bowman was the Mod categories rep. We talked at a few races about it.

[ram95]

Keep boats on the water

Each "club" is free to dig up their own sponsors to any degree they want. But, it takes an individual ( or 2 or 3 etc ) to beat the bushes. Hard in a small club because most of the members (who attend club meetings) comprise the minimum number of volunteers needed just to put on the race. I don't expect APBA or NBRA to support my club, but I sure feel the parent organization needs to be supporting our sport by keeping costs low for membership and sanction/insurance, etc. And, despite all the hollering about the difference between the two organizations cost for putting on a race... The Crown operation hasn't lowered ours yet. Other times, our Stocks vs Mods vs J/AX rules structure hurts boat counts for any given heat (cept for C anyway).

For example: A person who ran a merc in AX and is now old enough to run A is not competitive with that motor in A. But, if the Merc could run AX weight in A they might run with the A's. Keep in mind, that this person just can't afford buying another new motor, like a Sidewinder. At a recent club meeting everyone agreed that the Merc weight in A ought to be dropped to AX weight. Will that happen?

[Team B&H]

All-star promoting and another sport I love.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih30i2iWnP8

Bill

[reed28n]

Merc Again? It is already a great value

Each "club" is free to dig up their own sponsors to any degree they want. But, it takes an individual ( or 2 or 3 etc ) to beat the bushes. Hard in a small club because most of the members (who attend club meetings) comprise the minimum number of volunteers needed just to put on the race. I don't expect APBA or NBRA to support my club, but I sure feel the parent organization needs to be supporting our sport by keeping costs low for membership and sanction/insurance, etc. And, despite all the hollering about the difference between the two organizations cost for putting on a race... The Crown operation hasn't lowered ours yet. Other times, our Stocks vs Mods vs J/AX rules structure hurts boat counts for any given heat (cept for C anyway).

For example: A person who ran a merc in AX and is now old enough to run A is not competitive with that motor in A. But, if the Merc could run AX weight in A they might run with the A's. Keep in mind, that this person just can't afford buying another new motor, like a Sidewinder. At a recent club meeting everyone agreed that the Merc weight in A ought to be dropped to AX weight. Will that happen?

If we reduce the number of classes in total, we will give every one motor owner an equal opportunity for water time. We will not need multiple class options for one motor. Why should a Mercury owner have greater access to the water than a Tohatsu owner?

I wholly support the J to AX opportunity transitioning our young drivers through two complete class experiences. After that we should focus on the entire membership of the category to increase value equally across all platforms.

[CBFSE107]

I started racing in 1970. We had many members of area clubs. We had races all summer long at different towns. Most were 1 day events some 2. Being Canadian we had the CBF sanction races some joint with the APBA. Most of the races we went to were refered as Wild Cat. It was nothing to go to a race with your D hydro and run the D class enter into the Granprix and run. We even changed motors from D to C and even to 4 stackers to run the granprix. All the small towns put on a good race, free food after and trophies for the top 3 per race. When we ran CBF they paid a tow fee (for gas) and had $ plus trophies for placement. Valleyfield Quebec hosted the North American championships. Boats from Canada Usa and Mexico were there. A buddy of mine Doug Doran won with a 75 Stinger on a Delta Craft. That boat was so fast it could take a tunnel on the straights. A to D hydros were plentiful as well as A and B utilities. Racing times were good. Then the towns and the municipalities became worried about their liabilities if there was an accident. The clubs were asked to pay for the Ins policys. The costs started to rise to the point that the average weekend racer said it was too much.
These guys still got together and ran out on the lakes and rivers, but it killed the next generation of racers. Most clases in Sport craft have or at least had a cap on the number of boats that could run in 1 heat. I think it was 11. There was so many FJ boats like Bill McGonegal, Larry Rucker, Brian Fummerton, Don Dodds, Wentworth Marshall, and so on. That they quite often had to run 2 qualifing heats. The Fe class was just as bad. The SE class being rather new had no limitiations . Racing against the Great Pumpkin a US boat, Jeff Newl, Kip Kelly, Gerry Fournier, and 18 other boats. In 1 heat. There were 3 accidents in the first corner. It has been the cost of partipication, fuel equippment and mostly insurance that has killed a great sport. There are some great boats out there now. But nothing like the 1970's when you could buy a Sidson or a Sidcraft and my favourite a Couts hydro for 2-3 hundred dollars and go racing. Good luck to all.