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  • #46

    Re: 125cc Mod Engine

    Should the class be a "Spec" class or "open" ... my thinking is that as a spec class you eliminate all the tweaking and tinkering that takes a lot of time and money. With a spec boat class ( all racers use the same boat) you have leveled the playing field so that it becomes a driver's class.
    Last edited by Dr. Thunder; 01-04-2018, 09:16 PM.
    Untethered from reality!

    Comment


    • David Weaver
      David Weaver commented
      Editing a comment
      The division is MODIFIED. Eventually,it must allow some level of Modification or it should be placed in a No-Modification division. For a year or two, get some things sorted out and decide where changes will be allowed.

    • Smitty
      Smitty commented
      Editing a comment
      It appears that the majority sentiment expressed here so far is for an engine that racers from any other motorsport would call a Stocker. If the class is developed in that direction, the expansion chamber should have a muffler clamped on the stinger. Maybe at some races the officials might allow removal of the muffler, although that might necessitate some retuning, so . . . .
      Last edited by Smitty; 01-05-2018, 11:50 AM.

  • #47

    Re: 125cc Mod Engine

    So is this a Spec stock class /Sealed motor or is it going to be MOD class?
    sigpicWayne DiGiacomo

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    • #48

      Re: 125cc Mod Engine

      Hello, My name is Rob and I am new to this site.

      I have been following this particular thread since it started with great interest. Primarily since I am in the evaluation stage of deciding if this sport is something I can invest in for my children. I am what would be called the “target” for a class such as this with the exception I probably have a stronger financial and technical position.

      I'm going to be honest. My investigation into this form of racing has been very frustrating. There is not much organized information available for a first timer in a single place. Too many organizations running similar classes. All of the engines, hulls, and classes are very cryptic and the components seem to be very hard to find, or just plain out of production. All of those things are a huge turn off for the would be participants.

      For this sport to start a growth trend these things are going to have to be addressed. I feel this 125 class could be the starting point for such a turn.

      Think about the average modern American that wants their kids involved in motor sports. The parent is starting with a child that has a reduced attention span to begin with. Couple that with a duel income family situation and you have now complicated the equation with a reduced amount of time to invest in learning a new sport, let alone building a hull or engine. Keep in mind the largest portion of the target market for this growth is going to be the credit card family. They cannot put together two nickles at a single moment, but they have a handful of credit cards that they are more than willing to stretch.

      How does all of that connect with the 125 class?

      These parents need to have access to information, components, engines, and hulls that can be ordered as either ready to run, or IKEA style “some assembly required” for the adventurous ones. And it all needs to fit within the bounds of the average American credit card limit of $8K. I don't feel that needs to include support equipment such as trailers, tools, fuel storage, etc. But the bulk investment must fit into that window. That or someone is going to have to come up with a financing angle.

      Why would a parent string out all the cash they do, or don't have for something that is so hard to figure out when they can drag their kids to a dealership and buy a jet ski or two on credit.

      Back to the 125.

      Being able to buy a cart engine, place it on a readily available mid/lower, and hang it on a pre-built/rigged hull is where I feel this 125 class should start. A simple restrictor plate will limit speed. Nothing else beyond that needed. The Daddy Warbucks father is not going to be able to money much more speed out of a combination when it has to draw through a 30mm sharp edge orifice like every one else.

      For that guy there should be a growth class using the same hull/engine/lower that allows a handful of mods for more speed and driver skill. That initial investment is now carried over into a faster class.

      Great working examples of this model would be junior dragster and UTV racing market.


      Just my two pesos.

      I welcome comments

      Rob


      Quick Edit/Addition

      Spending some time discussing and developing a 4 stroke class would be money in the bank.
      Last edited by PPRINT; 01-05-2018, 06:34 AM.



      Comment


      • dwhitford
        dwhitford commented
        Editing a comment
        Quite well said. Very valid thinking points. We oldsters and experienced current racers forget what it took and how we acquired a lot of esoteric knowledge.

    • #49

      Re: 125cc Mod Engine

      PPrint, These are good observations and you are right that our sport is pretty unique in that one can not get a turn key outfit at the race boat store. There are probably no 2 identical boats out there but most share common features. For many of us that is part of the fun of our type of racing, we can get a goofy idea and go out to the garage and start cutting wood. The 125 Mod class has the potential to make more affordable racing possible to the new guy which is an exciting thing for our sport. For now there will still be a lot of chances to make your racing rig unique. If the motor becomes sufficiently popular a one design class may emerge but this will take time. Here’s a resource that you may find interesting http://hydroracer.net/2015%20Hydro%20basics.11.7.pdf
      John Adams



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      • #50

        Re: 125cc Mod Engine

        Awesome book and professional career! Thanks for sharing!!! The airplane looks amazing!
        GrandpaRacer likes this.
        Joe Silvestri
        CSH/500MH

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        • #51

          Re: 125cc Mod Engine

          I really like the idea of this class and will likely be one of the first to pony up the credit card to buy one. I like the sound of spec engine/foot/prop class but would still like to see any boat. The speed range is pretty comparable to the current 250ccMH so I would guess that most A/B boats could be made to work and they are out there. Granted you may have to do some looking, but I think keeping the cheaper used boats in play would go a long way in getting more participation as well as providing a cheaper option for people just getting started.

          There are merits to both sides, but thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. I'm looking forward to what this class will become.

          Kyle
          jsilvestri and mercguy like this.

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          • #52

            Re: 125cc Mod Engine

            So is this a Spec stock class /Sealed motor or is it going to be MOD class?
            MOD!!
            Matt Dagostino likes this.
            Daren

            ​DSH/750ccmh/850ccmh

            Team Darneille


            sigpic

            Comment


            • Dr. Thunder
              Dr. Thunder commented
              Editing a comment
              "MOD racers aren’t afraid to get their hands dirty – The goal in this category is to pull every last bit of horsepower out of your engine. In Modified Outboard, the engine builder’s skill is just as important as the driver's. These boats are easily recognizable by their specially tuned pipes that make them as loud as they are fast. Because engines are constantly being modified to make the absolute most of what the rules allow, the compeitiion (sic) is always feirce (sic). Join the ranks of some of the best engine builders in the world, join Modified Outboard Racing."

              The above quote is from the APBA website ... but notice how the conversation on this thread has quickly gone in the direction of a "spec" class so as to limit the need to do a lot of tinkering with engine modifications etc. I see no reason that the 125cc Mod class shouldn't remain in the mod category as proposed but would love to see it also incorporate a single design boat with standardized dimensions. Also like the idea of introducing "claiming" for both boat and/or motor since replacement boats and engines would be readily available.

          • #53

            Re: 125cc Mod Engine

            Can we open up the water inlet hole for improved cooling like stock?

            Sorry, I just couldn't resist.....

            Steve
            mercguy and Matt Dagostino like this.

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            • #54

              Re: 125cc Mod Engine

              I have seen this Fireball engine (powerhead) run at Thompson, CT on several occasions and Howie Pickerell really has put a lot of work into this little 60 mph jewel............seems the most appealing thing about it is it is basically a 'sealed' powerhead that is blueprinted to racing specs, it is bulletproof, affordable, reliable and most of all AVAILABLE. The website is sweet and all you need is a credit card and a computer to order one and it will be on the doorstep in 3 days! To kneel down racers this to me is the formula to successful racing in APBA and elsewhere. Just look at how 300ssh has taken off! Just to bad the cowl doesn't say Mercury or Johnson on it.....
              GrandpaRacer and bill hoctor like this.

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              • #55

                Re: 125cc Mod Engine

                Is the tower and clamp set up whatever you want? What lower unit or units are being considered?

                It would be nice if one lower unit is only approved somewhat like 500 mod Yamato is. A trick lower unit could cost more than the power head.

                Tim
                Tim Weber

                Comment


                • #56

                  Re: 125cc Mod Engine

                  Conversely, any lower unit means I can put a little bit of work in to an old Konig unit picked up cheap and be able to complete an engine for far less than specified parts. Any time that certain parts are mandated, costs seem to go up not down. Even the mention of spec boats seems strange to me. We need to realize that while those thoughts are well intended, They add to the cost significantly as there are many used boats out there that could potentially be used and give someone options. Once things dial in a bit and the "known" hull designs becoming settled, someone wanting a new boat just needs to call any builder and get what they want.

                  How about we get the class on the water and see where it goes and progresses. Just out of curiosity, how many of the posters that say "MOD needs to do this or that" are actually going to run the class? I know that everyone has opinions and expresses them, but lets hear from those who are actually going to race it....

                  Steve
                  racer4s, T Chance and 2 others like this.

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                  • GrandpaRacer
                    GrandpaRacer commented
                    Editing a comment
                    We are IN!
                    John Adams

                • #57

                  Re: 125cc Mod Engine

                  To PPrint,

                  You might want to go to a race in your area. What part of the country do you live?

                  Good luck.
                  sigpic

                  Dean F. Hobart

                  Comment


                  • #58

                    Re: 125cc Mod Engine

                    Thank you all for the responses.

                    John Adams...very good booklet. I printed it at work, stuck inside an SAE spec I was reviewing and read it instead. 1950's school boy style. LOL

                    Dean, I am located in south/central TX....which is part of the problem. I can't find any form of boat racing in this area. That is why I am interested in a "Canned" beginners class. The lakes and rivers in this area are jam packed with boats all season long. Everyone loves the water. Ironically there are no forms of boat racing present here. The environment is prime for a new motor sport in this area.

                    Rob



                    Fast Freddie likes this.



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                    • #59

                      Re: 125cc Mod Engine

                      Rob, check out racenbra.net. It will be the closest races to you. The Texas club is working on a race or 2 in the state of Texas.
                      Keith Kampen

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                      • #60

                        Re: 125cc Mod Engine

                        Keep the rules simple: Stock power head & pipe. A "R" dimension on the gear case, any gear ratio. If someone would manufacture a good tower that used A-B Merc forged clamps would be great. This makes engine changes easy. There are a lot of these clamps around, they don't break, so they don't get thrown away. I have 3 extra sets myself.

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