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  • A Different Agenda

    Alright, as I alluded in the other thread, Pavlick's persistent and reasonable logic, combined with his obvious love for racing, quality craftsmanship and design of racing vessels, and his complete perplexity at my thinking, has led me to have a religious wakening.

    -We do not need to cut classes. Who cares how many classes we have? I don't! (I still think consolidation makes sense but, whatever. It's not important.)

    -It will not matter if we put side-fins in BSR or cut 25ssH. (Why would we want to get rid of the only ride better than a Sidewinder?)

    -Our problem is not actually our problem. It is everybody's problem. Stock Outboard isn't struggling. Mod isn't struggling. APBA is struggling.

    -Why is APBA a business that does not try to make money?

    -APBA is a santioning body. Why do they not ACTIVELY seek sanctions?

    -Why does APBA not promote and advertise it's races?

    These are simple things our business could do to enhance it's presence.

    I think APBA could promote major market races to make money and gain presence. Multi-category races would not only provide a platform to display the full array of our Association but the variety would keep crowds interested for much longer than a full day of outboards or inboards could do.

    Our problems are systemic. I used to think that meant changing the class structure because I only was looking at the Stock Outboard system. It is the whole system that is listing. We need revolution in thought to stay on top of the spin.
    Last edited by ryan_4z; 12-05-2017, 09:53 PM.
    steve jones, joejohn44 and 2 others like this.
    Ryan Runne
    9-H
    Wacusee Speedboats
    ryan.runne.4@gmail.com

    "Imagination is more important than knowledge"--Albert Einstein

    These days, I find it easier to look up to my youngers than my elders.

  • #2

    Re: A Different Agenda

    Getting closer.
    mrlou40 likes this.

    Comment


    • #3

      Re: A Different Agenda

      Chilli bowl has one class, 320 entries.
      Flatiron likes this.

      Comment


      • #4

        Re: A Different Agenda

        Yes and they can get engines anywhere at any time and don't have stupid a$$ cooling problems.
        Matt Dagostino and bill hoctor like this.

        Comment


        • #5

          Re: A Different Agenda

          Hmmm...sounds familiar. I wonder where APBA would be today if the SeaTac proposal wasn't shot down.
          sigpic

          Comment


          • Big Don
            Big Don commented
            Editing a comment
            Could be worse, could be better, who knows.

          • hshawwpba
            hshawwpba commented
            Editing a comment
            your correct if the SeaTac proposal was not killed by the insider group of APBA there would be a totally different APBA today, but at that time it was to much forward thinking and I'm not as sure it would get supported even today even though that ship has come and gone ----the racers wanted control and here is the end result of racers running the organization not business people.

        • #6

          Re: A Different Agenda

          Chilli bowl has one class, 320 entries.
          Please explain this... I donít know what this is.

          Thank You.
          sigpic

          Dean F. Hobart

          Comment


          • Big Don
            Big Don commented
            Editing a comment
            I think he’s referring to the Midget Nationals. If not I’m lost.

          • DiGia54D
            DiGia54D commented
            Editing a comment
            For some reason we try and compare our issues with sprint cars...or the famous You know back when i raced in 1920-60

          • Hydro doc
            Hydro doc commented
            Editing a comment
            Yes midgets. Largest indoor car race. Takes a week to find the Champion.

        • #7

          Re: A Different Agenda

          Yes The biggest Midget race in the country. Some of them will have a different engine combination and different weights to even out the playing field. All will be extremely competitive.

          Comment


          • #8

            Re: A Different Agenda

            [QUOTE=ryan_4z;n460415]

            -Our problem is not actually our problem. It is everybody's problem. Stock Outboard isn't struggling. Mod isn't struggling. APBA is struggling.

            -Why is APBA a business that does not try to make money?

            -APBA is a santioning body. Why do they not ACTIVELY seek sanctions?

            -Why does APBA not promote and advertise it's races?

            These are simple things our business could do to enhance it's presence.

            I think APBA could promote major market races to make money and gain presence. Multi-category races would not only provide a platform to display the full array of our Association but the variety would keep crowds interested for much longer than a full day of outboards or inboards could do.QUOTE]

            I have been trying staying out of all of this because a) it never really goes anywhere b) can be very entertaining c) its called the silly season for a reason - nothing else is going on. But had to comment on this thread.
            1. If APBA is struggling then Ryan Runne and Brian Williams are struggling. If APBA is failing that is because we are not putting in the effort. We are APBA - we wanted a member driven organization and that means every member is responsible for the success or failings.
            2. Do you really want APBA to make money like a business? Because if so, then be very careful what you wish for. If money equals drivers, then the first order of business is to cut the majority of all classes and put our resources into those that are preforming. So, take your lower 1/2 of classes in each category and erase them. Gone.
            3. Want APBA to promote and advertise? Who's paying for this? Your choice is to increase membership fee's (I would think maybe $1000 per person per year to start) to cover the increased staff and hours to advertise and promote correctly. Oh, and we only promote those that bring a return, so all those beautiful race lakes in the middle of now where - gone. You need to start hosting races in the middle of major cities that bring in crowds. Water to rough and pits are in the "less desirable" section of town - to bad.
            4. And with all this - do you really think Outboard is going to be carrying the APBA flag up the hill. Please!?! Quit comparing to Nascar of Sprint cars. We are barely a local demolish derby - an afternoon's entertainment by some crazy guys that travel around the country like a caravel. Your Big boys will soak up the majority of resources - H1, F1, Offshore, Big Inboard Series, because they pack in 100k's of spectators and that brings sponsors.
            Can't have it both ways. Either the collective "we" works to make things better, realizing the limitations of what Outboard racing truly is or be prepared to a) pay someone to do it and b) live with whatever they decide, good or bad for your and your buddies individual trailer box.




            Last edited by Brian10s; 12-08-2017, 06:15 AM.
            steve jones, and 9 others like this.
            Brian 10s

            Comment


            • #9

              Re: A Different Agenda

              Brian you said it well. But I have to wonder if there is a happy medium somewhere out there. A little more dictatorship than we have now. Sometimes we are afraid to make changes at the category level, maybe if someone above us told us we need to do XXXXX, things would be better. Not really sure, I just know we can't keep doing the same.

              "Ask anyone, I have no friends. I do have some people that put up with me and mostly because they like the rest of my family"

              Don Allen

              Comment


              • #10

                Re: A Different Agenda

                Who knows. I would hope so. The biggest problem is participation - less than 50% of all drivers in every single outboard class race more than 3 times per year (6 days of racing). So that should be the question everyone to focus on - how do we get those guys who run locally to travel to 1 or 2 more races per year? They either have equipment or are borrowing some. How do you get them to travel?

                Fix that problem and all the rest are easy.
                Brian 10s

                Comment


                • Bob Rusnak
                  Bob Rusnak commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Even local races are a several hour trip. With work schedules and the cost of travel, maybe a motel entry fees etc, it does become a choice if it is worth the trip. In most cases the days are just too long and usually there is no testing. You get very little boat time over a weekend unless you enter several of the same type of classes. We did enjoy the Mod/Pro Nationals where there was test time, limited number of classes and the day was finished on time. Did enjoy Lock haven, again testing but it was a very long day with a lot of waiting. Just so many classes. Went to a stock/mod nationals a while ago, just too many classes to run off, doub't if we will do that again. Kind of wondering why it is in the middle of the week. Guess they don't want spectators. Just my opinion.

                • ryan_4z
                  ryan_4z commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Alleviate the financial burden on the clubs so they can run more local races for their club members.

                • Ram4x4
                  Ram4x4 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  And how do we do that Ryan?

              • #11

                Re: A Different Agenda

                If APBA actively sought and sanctioned 8-12 races a year in major markets. If these races showcased only the premier class or two of each division. If these races were billed and promoted on the scale of like say a Valleyfield. Then APBA could make enough money off of these 8-12 races to ease the burden on all the categories in some sort of way. I believe a significant way. If I am not mistaken HRL successfully uses this model to run their series. A couple of big money races pay for the whole series. And they own racing equipment as well. And they are self sanctioning and governing (like APBA). Somehow, we must relieve the clubs and drivers of this financial burden. (And you can't tell me that getting APBA to make money, would cost the drivers more.)

                I am just like the rest of you. I don't want to see my backyard races change. But that is not a problem because the backyard races aren't money makers. But there is a way to have marketable events that, if nothing else, make money to help the organization grow and alleviate the financial burden on the clubs and drivers. Not to mention the fact that it would get a couple of outboard classes in front of a crowd. (BSR drivers will race on your 'rough' water.) And if you think outboards aren't important to the whole scheme you sadly underestimate how important we all are to each other. Some categories are big and showy. Some are family and fun. Some are whatever, I don't even know. The point is we all fill a part of a bigger world of boat racing. And we all create that world together, whether we are aware of it or not. (Don't forget that fomer kneelers have gone on to dominate Unlimiteds, OPCs, run and win big-time worldwide races. Our little corner of the racing universe get's around quite a bit. And our drivers make their mark where they go. Fred Hauenstein is one of the highest ranking UIM officials and I see him at like every race I go too!)

                Maybe this isn't the answer. But I guarantee you something is. And you are right, Brian, we are failing. The old way is failing. I am putting in effort how I can. I am offering competitive equipment at a reasonable price to encourage growth in my classes and I am participating in lively debate in order that, I hope, we may affect some real change for the better. Maybe that isn't enough, but it's all I have today.
                Last edited by ryan_4z; 12-07-2017, 08:00 PM.
                Ryan Runne
                9-H
                Wacusee Speedboats
                ryan.runne.4@gmail.com

                "Imagination is more important than knowledge"--Albert Einstein

                These days, I find it easier to look up to my youngers than my elders.

                Comment


                • #12

                  Re: A Different Agenda

                  If APBA actively sought and sanctioned 8-12 races a year in major markets. If these races showcased only the premier class or two of each division. If these races were billed and promoted on the scale of like say a Valleyfield. Then APBA could make enough money off of these 8-12 races to ease the burden on all the categories in some sort of way. I believe a significant way. If I am not mistaken HRL successfully uses this model to run their series. A couple of big money races pay for the whole series. And they own racing equipment as well. And they are self sanctioning and governing (like APBA). Somehow, we must relieve the clubs and drivers of this financial burden. (And you can't tell me that getting APBA to make money, would cost the drivers more.)

                  I am just like the rest of you. I don't want to see my backyard races change. But that is not a problem because the backyard races aren't money makers. But there is a way to have marketable events that, if nothing else, make money to help the organization grow and alleviate the financial burden on the clubs and drivers. Not to mention the fact that it would get a couple of outboard classes in front of a crowd. (BSR drivers will race on your 'rough' water.) And if you think outboards aren't important to the whole scheme you sadly underestimate how important we all are to each other. Some categories are big and showy. Some are family and fun. Some are whatever, I don't even know. The point is we all fill a part of a bigger world of boat racing. And we all create that world together, whether we are aware of it or not. (Don't forget that fomer kneelers have gone on to dominate Unlimiteds, OPCs, run and win big-time worldwide races. Our little corner of the racing universe get's around quite a bit. And our drivers make their mark where they go. Fred Hauenstein is one of the highest ranking UIM officials and I see him at like every race I go too!)

                  Maybe this isn't the answer. But I guarantee you something is. And you are right, Brian, we are failing. The old way is failing. I am putting in effort how I can. I am offering competitive equipment at a reasonable price to encourage growth in my classes and I am participating in lively debate in order that, I hope, we may affect some real change for the better. Maybe that isn't enough, but it's all I have today.

                  From what I recall, this is what the SeaTac proposal was going to do.

                  Anyone that remembers the details what to dip their toes in the flowing lava?

                  A smart business man told me years ago, referring to APBA, " the inmates are running the asylum".

                  I've hear the same conversation for 30 years, very little ever changes.

                  Brian is spot on, going big time promotional, APBA Outboard classes will lose everything under C. Watching mid 50's mph (and less), boat racing on TV is boring.
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #13

                    Re: A Different Agenda

                    If we compare what we do to NASCAR, the boats we race are the equivalent of go karts. There is never going to be any big public following for our little wooden boats racing little motors. We are grass roots type, family fun racing and need to grow our sport one racer at a time. We need to encourage and help each interested new guy and try to make it a real fun way to spend a weekend. The general public looks at us as a bunch of guys and gals that like to work in their garage and play with little boats. To people unlike us (we are not typical people) our sport is as interesting as GoKart racing. Maybe once in their life, they will make the effort to go watch a race. After an hour or two at the most, they start yawning and go home.
                    Last edited by GrandpaRacer; 12-08-2017, 08:40 AM.



                    Comment


                    • #14

                      Re: A Different Agenda

                      This is really good stuff. And yes, APBA needs to move forward with these types of ideas. These types of ideas will move us forward.

                      So, APBA.... get going. The question is how to make it happen.

                      Regards to all,

                      Dean Hobart
                      sigpic

                      Dean F. Hobart

                      Comment


                      • #15

                        Re: A Different Agenda

                        the big question is....................do WE want this to be a "participation sport" or a "spectator sport".......................I "personally" don't receive any gratification from having a ton of spectators...............if we want this a "spectator or promotional" sport, then the dynamics will dramatically change..............I guarantee that!!

                        ​PS: eliminating classes or motors will hurt us..................don't do it.................
                        Daren

                        ​DSH/750ccmh/850ccmh

                        Team Darneille


                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • Ram4x4
                          Ram4x4 commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Yes, we need some spectators. One of things being bantered about here is supporting the local businesses when the race is in town. Well, part of that money influx for the businesses will also come from spectators. They have to eat and buy gas too.

                          In our region, we have a couple races that tend to have much larger crowds because the races are going on while other things are happening too, like a local fair or festival. Kittanning, in particular, likes us because they do have a few things tied in with our racing and its quickly become popular (again...as racing used to happen there many years ago). These guys roll out the red carpet for us. We are also holding our driver school there now as well. Probably one of, if not the biggest spectator crowds of the races in the region. Because of this town, and a couple of boat shows throughout the year, we had an over full race school this year (I think it was 11 or 12 signed up when we try to limit to 10).

                          Short of a symbiotic relationship with a town like that with other events happening there over the weekend, we're pretty much relegated to a few local stragglers wondering what all the noise is at some isolated lake.

                          I don't think we need to change the organization to try to make it a spectator sport, but we shouldn't ignore them either.
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