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  • B Class

    We really struggle with the old Y80 in the B Class or in APBA , it's called 350 mod. Class. The motor has a difficult ignition system. Each race we have to set the timing. This is not a class that a Newbie can get in, it's really like a model T. I've advocated for easy to operate and thus more fun. It's very discouraging to have your engine fail. We have 3 B Y80 motors and when they are right they go in the low 70s. But it's a lot of work keeping these motors running as there over 40 years old. Slowly, these motors in the stock division have been replaced with 302 and 322 motors with dependable electronic ignition system. We are Mod people and we love the sound and speed of Mod. Motors. Lets replace the B motor with the restricted 302, 102, 202 321 and go have some fun racing.
    Last edited by Hydro doc; 11-02-2017, 08:31 PM.

  • #2

    Re: B Class

    Interesting idea. It works in APBA stock racing. Maybe propose adding some engines to the 350 class?
    Lee
    Last edited by flatsmoke; 11-03-2017, 05:02 AM.

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    • #3

      Re: B Class

      Great idea Doc.
      Lee

      Comment


      • #4

        Re: B Class

        Sounds like a great idea for a class that usually only has a hand full of boats. I know it would definitely get my interest. Alot of the classes need to make some changes to spur interst in them and get more entries. Let's be honest from a spectators view a 4 boat race is pretty boring most of the time.
        Last edited by Flatiron; 11-03-2017, 03:34 AM.

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        • #5

          Re: B Class

          Doc,,, Talk to Bob Koshka as they run the same engine.

          Comment


          • Hydro doc
            Hydro doc commented
            Editing a comment
            Bob has to set the timing ever time he runs. How easy would it be to pop in the restrictor. We run a couple miles slower and less pick up. Wish we could test it, but it should have the same result as the two Stock motors. Bottom line we gain 350 participants, because the largest class in Mod. Is C Mod hydro.

          • ZUL8TR
            ZUL8TR commented
            Editing a comment
            What do you know is the issue that causes the Y80 timing to change so often? Do you have a loose top roller bearing causing some lateral crankshaft shaft movement? Loose point cam? Have you ever used a timing light to see the timing action with engine running? Does Mod allow the Nova II chips like in stock for the Y80 and 102?

          • dwhitford
            dwhitford commented
            Editing a comment
            Seems to me it's normal to check & reset the timing every week between regattas. I know I always did as a matter of routine. Part of my checklist! Easier on some engines than on some others. Probably the easiest on my Thunderbolt-equipped engines . . . And I never seized (burned) a piston because of any sort of spark-timing problem. (BTW, sticking a piston is not merely an ''issue''. It's a darn problem!! Make no mistake about that!

        • #6

          Re: B Class

          No way, those motors are already Cmod/500mod. The exact same motors with and without restrictors as 2 different classes???? Too many classes is always acknowledged as one of the problems!!! If it is that bad drop the class. If the ignition is the key - develop, permit and make available as a kit a modern replacement ignition. I am running 350mh with the alternative and equally old 22omc, the 20hr is the 3rd possible choice also just as old. I will give up the class if restricted 24y's take it over. Don't wait for ed runne, is anyone testing a mod version of the 20sw???



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          • ryan_4z
            ryan_4z commented
            Editing a comment
            I don't think it is legal anywhere in Mod. I would be tempted to give it a go if it were.

        • #7

          Re: B Class

          Doc, set the timing at home or maybe just not run so many classes.

          Comment


          • Hydro doc
            Hydro doc commented
            Editing a comment
            They need the entry fees.

        • #8

          Re: B Class

          We really struggle with the old Y80 in the B Class or in APBA , it's called 350 mod. Class. The motor has a difficult ignition system. Each race we have to set the timing. This is not a class that a Newbie can get in, it's really like a model T. I've advocated for easy to operate and thus more fun. It's very discouraging to have your engine fail. We have 3 B Y80 motors and when they are right they go in the low 70s. But it's a lot of work keeping these motors running as there over 40 years old. Slowly, these motors in the stock division have been replaced with 302 and 322 motors with dependable electronic ignition system. We are Mod people and we love the sound and speed of Mod. Motors. Lets replace the B motor with the restricted 302, 102, 202 321 and go have some fun racing.
          we have discussed this for a few years in the Mod Commission............just have to have someone go testing and report back some results..............
          Daren

          ​DSH/750ccmh/850ccmh

          Team Darneille


          sigpic

          Comment


          • #9

            Re: B Class

            If you go buy a C Mod, how cool would it be to run another class for $24. Not $7,000.

            Comment


            • reed28n
              reed28n commented
              Editing a comment
              Not sure the pipe and tuned exhaust would work exactly the same with a restricted carb. Have fewer classes and run more heats! that is the ultimate value.

              Having additoanl classes to run is not the long term answer. tooooooooooo many 3 boat classes.

          • #10

            Re: B Class

            Doc
            I don't set timing every race. I check about every other race and sometimes needs adjusting.. My mags are all rebuilt and as you see they are very reliable. New parts help!

            I suspect a couple things are wrong. You're putting back in the trailer and handling the engine by the mag. Stop doing that. Also be sure you use lub on the cam. If not lubricated the points wear quickly. New helicoils on the point screws Allow you to seriously clamp down on the screws and keeps the points from slipping.


            I remember you having problems at Constantine and I think you have coils going bad or maybe you pulled the plug wires out of the coils . A great thing about the y -80 is that you can replace plug wires.

            This engine has been around since the 80's. Don't change things because of your problems.

            History tells me a restricted 302 / 321 will still out accelerate an 80 at the exit pin. More cubes!

            Get your mags rebuilt or start developing the new system that doesn't use points. I believe it's legal in mod.

            The 202 is not legal in APBA
            racer4s, Steve Dunn Racing and 2 others like this.

            Comment


            • #11

              Re: B Class

              I am with 94h on this one. You have something else going on. I've never had any issues with timing moving on our 80 or any that we build or rebuild for anyone. I like the idea of running a restricted engine in it however research has been asked and not given yet from what Darren has said. I think we need to combine the 350ccmh and 400ccmh classes. The 400 is going down in entry and is already legal to run in 350.
              spider pig, spider pig, spider pig does what'ever a spider pig does.

              Comment


              • #12

                Re: B Class

                Doc,
                Is the cam cracked?
                - Mike

                Comment


                • 94H
                  94H commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Good point. Forgot that one

              • #13

                Re: B Class

                As a fan of racing, sure seems like something is amiss with the BMH class. As of today, there were 13 participants in 2017. That is horribly low. Last year, there were 26 drivers. Historically, the class has been in the low 30s. (I have class totals dating back 20 years). So, why the big drop off?

                Comment


                • runabout333
                  runabout333 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  This is just one retired guy talking. Go back to about 1989-1991, APBA Mod Nationals,, Mt. Home, Ark. The talk at the driver's meeting was about allowing the Y-80 in mod form into the B class and dropping the 20-mod class. Uncle Bob adamantly opposed this. It happened anyway. Yes, the Yamato was a little faster,, but what was gained?
                  Like myself,, I dropped that class and had a stock 15 built. Is the 20 cube Hot Rod that obsolete and slow to try to revive the class?? If a poll was taken to eliminate the Y-80 and only have the Hot Rod the engine of choice,, would there be more or less participation?? Are there not plenty of parts on shelves to make this work? I really enjoyed the 20 cube Hot Rod class in both stock and mod form. The so called horror stories about having 3 Hot Rods to make at least 1 run is kinda' far fetched. Anyway, thanks for my having the privilege of typing this, with no offence intended.

                • 94H
                  94H commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Dana,
                  In the IOA it's been schooling,new employment, marriage and babies that slowed this class down. Most will be back next year - hope.

                  We still run 5 to 6 350's instead of last years 8 to 9.

                • reed28n
                  reed28n commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Maybe it is time to move on from this platform and help to move these drivers into other classes. APBA is not good at calling it quits when a class is failing and we ususally make a bigger mess trying to save it. 25SSH kind of the in the same boat. The worst thing about a dwindling class is the chance a new driver might enter it rather than a more popular sustainable class. We only have so many folks that will get on their knees in a boat. It is past time to get us going in the same direction (APBA, NBRA, AOF, Title Series, PRo, Stock , Mod all need to come together in this conversation) align ourselves and we will attract a few more and keep racing for more years. We race on ovals but we keep thinking in circles.

              • #14

                Re: B Class

                We had a broken cam on this motor but replace it. We are trying to replace the points with electric parts.

                Comment


                • ZUL8TR
                  ZUL8TR commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Are you doing the Nova II's? I have recently done that on the Y80 and can provide what done and the results.

              • #15

                Re: B Class

                well here is my take on all of the talk about the bmod drop off. in 2016 there were 26 b mod hydro drivers listed on the apba high points and in 2017 there were only 13. if someone is interested in racing in this class seek out those 13 drivers who did not race in 2017. they may have equipment for sale. it would be a shame to have bmod engines gathering dust.

                as for the 302 and 321 coming into the class, i'll hold off on that for now.

                frank novotny
                52-E

                Comment


                • DiGia54D
                  DiGia54D commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I would guess there is about 6-10 Bmod 80's kicking around in garages just from New York State - Maine and down into CT... Goller built so many we had eliminations just in Reg 1.. Problem is guys want 5k for a motor that is not worth that much so they never sell.
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