Announcement

Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Testing to improve cooling

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Testing to improve cooling

    Has anyone beside Matt and Joe, done or planning to test methods to cool the 321?

  • #2

    Re: Testing to improve cooling

    The 321 has a hole that is higher than the other 300 series motor.

    Comment


    • #3

      Re: Testing to improve cooling

      Scott Clark, Scott Reed, and Adam Allen, ran a bone stock 321 this past weekend in CSHat millville nj and NO issue with cooling the engine. Didnt matter if they were out front or coming from the back (4/5) place.
      bill hoctor, 3rd Chance and Flatiron like this.
      spider pig, spider pig, spider pig does what'ever a spider pig does.

      Comment


      • ajennings4p
        ajennings4p commented
        Editing a comment
        Harold8 Yes to my knowlede that was at the height limit. and runing 2nd place on the race coarse. Sounds like there are issues with boats as Hydro doc has stated in the next post down.

      • pav225
        pav225 commented
        Editing a comment
        Had to be Troy driving ...Scott would have cooked it...or won*

      • ajennings4p
        ajennings4p commented
        Editing a comment
        @ pav... Troy who??

    • #4

      Re: Testing to improve cooling

      I've been told the 321 Will cool with a 24 degree transom, I'm not sure but some of those boats may have that degree of transom.

      Comment


      • #5

        Re: Testing to improve cooling

        question? Why did the SORC approve to cut the head?

        Comment


        • #6

          Re: Testing to improve cooling

          Good question. Anyone have the answer? Several modifications are legal, so not so Stock.

          Comment


          • #7

            Re: Testing to improve cooling

            question? Why did the SORC approve to cut the head?
            Lee, what do you mean cut the head?
            sigpic

            Dean F. Hobart

            Comment


            • Matt Dagostino
              Matt Dagostino commented
              Editing a comment
              Dean...........i think Lee's point is that we allow all kinds of costly trick machining in STOCK OUTBOARDING but get all choked up about allowing basic water cooling for the motors!

          • #8

            Re: Testing to improve cooling

            Dean, in stock and Mod. Racing there is no thick measurements of the head.

            Comment


            • GrandpaRacer
              GrandpaRacer commented
              Editing a comment
              There are head cc measurements which are achieved by milling the head.

          • #9

            Re: Testing to improve cooling

            Can anyone provide some data?

            I've heard claims from many people that they're keeping cool but then I see the same people blowing smoke on race day
            Matt Dagostino likes this.

            Comment


            • Big Don
              Big Don commented
              Editing a comment
              Eric,

              There are team out there gathering data on what some modifications will do and how much they help.

              Yes there are teams that are not having issues. We were one of them that did not have an issue at Constantine. We threw Joe Pater's 321 on our 20 plus year old Black Pavlick boat and never had an issue. But, I have observed other struggling. I also witnessed several runabouts having issues so as we all know the issue is ther for a lot of people.

              Yes the Allen's, Pater's, Reed's Clark's, etc. can make them cool but should this really be an issue. I've come around, last year I was against doing anything. I now see the struggles and how it's hindering our sport for some and am willing to do something different. I personally think we should allow the Tietz cool tool along with do what ever you want to the pick up hole and remove any dimension on that hole. Let the driver decide what he wants to do, take the easy cool tool and bolt it on and for the guys like Joe Pater...let them experiment. If a guy wants to move it up an inch let him. I just want this issue to go away so it can't be used as one of the reason it's hindering growth.

            • Matt Dagostino
              Matt Dagostino commented
              Editing a comment
              Great comment Big Don.............'hindering the sport ' and 'creating roadblocks' should be eliminated. Cooling motors is a basic fundamental element of a outboard motor and NOBODY should have to be at risk of burning up Stock Outboard engines.

            • GrandpaRacer
              GrandpaRacer commented
              Editing a comment
              Big Don, you are right on. Let them all cool and now let's go race.

          • #10

            Re: Testing to improve cooling

            Dean, in stock and Mod. Racing there is no thick measurements of the head.
            Latest inspection manual Rule 12 page 73 - head milling is allowed on 102, 302 and 321 but not less than min. cc spec.
            In the 300 ssh class the 302 has a min. head thickness " I" dimension and the 321 has a min head thickness "H" dimension and not be less than min cc spec for 14 and 18mm heads.

            Pages 73, 80 and 81

            http://www.apba.org/sites/all/files/...89-7-17%29.pdf
            "Keep Move'n" life is catching up!

            Comment


            • Tunnelman801
              Tunnelman801 commented
              Editing a comment
              Big Don, and Mat, you both are RIGHT ON.!!! Lets cool all engines and put our time in making our boats run faster.......William

          • #11

            Re: Testing to improve cooling

            I totally agree with Tunnelman801.... The cool tool is the answer... that's the simplistic way to do it... no machining involved... except for drilling two holes to mount it... and no measurements. Easy Peasy.
            sigpic

            Dean F. Hobart

            Comment


            • dwhitford
              dwhitford commented
              Editing a comment
              Actually, I don't agree that the Cool Tool is the answer, regardless however I agree that the Cool Tool is a good step forward.

              Rather, I think that the best solution is for the SORC to approve a new underwater pickup in the gearbox (skeg) casting for the water pickup, and then whatever plumbing is necessary to get this water flow into the powerhead, similar to what PRO racers use.

              Lets be realistic: The use of Yamato castoff engines from Japan;'s pari-mutuel racing has resulted in a perversion of pure Stock APBA racing rules for almost 40 years now since the late 1970s when the World (Jap) motors began to be imported for ''Stock Racing'' use.

              Little by little, the SORC has passed rules and accommodation to favor these foreign-based engines, to the extent that these engines now dominate the Stock Outboard category. One big push has been the low price point of these ''reconditioned'' imported engines, far below the $5000 or so of a newly manufactured engine in USA dollars.

              So my point in plain words is, if you don't want to buy a new ''high-dollar'' Sidewinder, then why won't you drill (or have drilled) a hole low down in your gear case to pick up cooling water for your powerhead? Because of rules??

              Look! APBA is a member-driven org. If you don't like what SORC is doing, you can change it. If you're cooking your engine for lack of cooling, you can change it.
              Last edited by dwhitford; 10-19-2017, 08:25 PM.

            • Ram4x4
              Ram4x4 commented
              Editing a comment
              The only problem with a new casting is you are now defeating one of the reasons for the pick up tube...cost. How much is this new custom cast gear box with integrated pickup going to cost?

              As for Yamatos "perverting" stock outboard, aren't they the answer to American manufacturers ceasing production of many of the popular racing engines?

              Other than the Sidewinder, what American made engines are available for stock outboard?

          • #12

            Re: Testing to improve cooling

            The drilled-out pick-up hole is enough. Even that was too much.
            http://vitalire.com/

            Comment


            • #13

              Re: Testing to improve cooling

              Dwitford,
              Yamatos are extremely popular because they are inexpensive and run forever.
              I'm not sure which rules you are refering to that favor foreign motors, but all motors (foreign and domestic) are machined within certain tolerances...that's why we have critical dimensions to inspect.

              Comment


              • #14

                Re: Testing to improve cooling

                The use of propeller-driven spray to provide cooling water for an outboard engine dates to 1930s technology, well before today's surfacing propellers running at or above transom depths of racing boats. Back then, most of the propeller was underwater, and a steady stream of water went directly back toward a backward-facing pickup point for later distribution to cool the cylinders.

                ​So at today's propeller depths at racing, you can't reliably expect that the propeller can provide steady-enough a stream of water thru above-water holes to cool the engine. It just cannot happen.

                ​Instead you need readouts from real tests with the best candidate props you have to see what might be the shortest time around the oval.
                Last edited by dwhitford; 10-19-2017, 09:02 PM.

                Comment


                • #15

                  Re: Testing to improve cooling

                  I'm not implying that we don't need to improve cooling, however, we did test 321 in CSH today with multiple props and didn't get hot.

                  Comment


                  • 14J
                    14J commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Mike I'm glad to hear my set up notes were helpful. Did you have time to test the prop?

                  • Matt Dagostino
                    Matt Dagostino commented
                    Editing a comment
                    14-J.................You are Fake News.

                  • pav225
                    pav225 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Yes Troy, I did. Can I still use it to race Matt at Tabor??
                Working...
                X