Yamato Cooling Tests

[runabout333]

What ryan_4z said about 20 c.i. only in the 20ss class. No dog in this fight at all. If the 20 c.i. S/W is a legal motor,, is the 20 c.i. Hot Rod considered to
be a legal motor also.. Or has APBA totally forgot about the 20 c.i. Hot Rod. Just Curious.

[csh-2z]

No, however it is a legal 25SS.

[Lee Sutter]

Great suggestion Ryan. Have it out between the SW and 80. You get rid of the 102, 302 and 321. Oh, then call it BSH!

[ryan_4z]

Sounds good to me, Lee! A real 20 cuber B class!

We have three Yamato hydro classes and three Sidewinder 20 hydro classes. This is the most repetitive class we have. 20ssH is the muttliest class of them all and is based from the oldest motor in the sport. Honestly, this class should be the first one to be trimmed from the schedule.

And let us not forget that the 102 is a legit antique now being out of production for thirty years yet we still allow it to be the dominant motor for winning nationals in CSH while at the same time we continue to spout the same rhetoric used any time new equipment comes down the pike.

[pav225]

Am I reading this wrong? Are you suggesting we trim 20ssH from the schedule because we added the SW20 to a Yamato class and now it's too "muttled"??

[Ram4x4]

Brian is right. If a focus is put on removing any classes, then participation numbers should probably be a primary factor....but...

Due to how the country is divided into regions and some classes only run in a few, or even just a single region, this presents a bit of a quandary.

For example, 25 hydro. Apparently it is popular in the NE, in fact until Lock Haven this year, I'd never seen that class run anywhere else in or near region 6. Is it run in other regions? Let's assume for a moment it is not. Let's also assume for a moment that there are around 8-10 racers in that class in the NE. If that class is removed then it does not affect any other part of the country whatsoever, but does boot out 8-10 drivers in the NE.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

[ryan_4z]

Thanks Brian, I have been missing so much! Fact is, we can cut classes without sending anybody home unable to race. This has always been my stance. Combining classes by cubic inch streamlines the program while still including everyone. If someone quits because they renamed their class, I cannot understand that. It would be so easy to cut classes without eliminating equipment. No one needs to go anywhere, we just need more full fields and less 3-4 boat parades. Personally I would love to see the Outboard categories get together and condense to a single, marketable schedule. That is a lofty goal and will only be achieved once each category make the decision to streamline individually first.

[pav225]

Hard to argue against the fact that someone can spend $20 on a restrictor and race in 2 classes. Same boat, motor, and prop.

[pav225]

CrazyPills.png
This pretty much sums it up...

[csh-2z]

Nobody is going to propose or suggest getting rid of 20SSH. I think Ryan's statements are not at all related to the context of the issues we are discussing. You know how those smart people are, always thinking on another level, maybe one day we'll catch up and understand.

[csh-2z]

I think the information I'm most interested in from our "cooling team" is getting speed /parity issues dealt with. We know the pickup tube will work and final design details are not my primary concern at this moment. If we can get those that are testing to focus on keeping the balance we currently have, we can get this done. It will take some tweaking in the near future, but our competition committee should be able to handle that. If the speeds do increase, we will have to address what can be done to keep the Sidewinder relevant in L.A. Try the pick up on all of the Yamato's and compare notes.

[Ram4x4]

Take a boat, put a 321 on it with the cooling tube and test the heck out of it. Change set ups and props and find the best speed and times you can get from it. Repeat with the same boat, only put a 302 on it and do the same. That's the only way you're going to get measurable and comparable data. Simply swapping the engines out without adjustments in set up isn't going to provide meaningful data.

[Tunnelman801]

Big Don and John, you both have good points. My suggestion is: In the 20ssh class; For one year trial. Let all yamato's drivers use the water pickup if they wish and set the hight of the Y80,Y102 and the seal engine at 1/4" below bottom of the boat. Also set the sidewinder at 1 1/4".Then keep Y202 and Y321 at 1/2" from the bottom of the boat.........William Anderson

[pav225]

Does anyone know who is on the 20ssH Parity Committee?

[Brian10s]

See Matt, you thought we never listen to you.

[Matt Dagostino]

Brian............i know you always listen. Lol. Merry Christmas and say hi to your parents for me.........it was fun at Alexandria, KY pitting together. Brought back memories of my days in TRORA.

[Brian10s]

Thanks Matt - Hope Everyone has a great Holiday as well. Alex is always a good time and watching Team Mel was entertaining to say the least.

[pav225]

Thanks guys.

[Hydro doc]

I do not speak for NBRA's tech. committee. So this is my personal ideas. I would approve any external water pick up apparatus on motors that use a 321 downhousing at 5/8s inch in the CSH class. It will take time to determine if the 321 will be faster, if it is cool. The pick up will keep the motor cooler than the 302 at 3/4", will it be slower or faster, only time will tell.

[Joe J]

Let me throw in a curve ball. There was a time that if you were running OSY 400 the best motor available ( though rare ) was a 202D. This was a 302 power head, with 102 ignition, on the taller tower. The reason they were the fastest was due to an additional baffle in the tower ( sound familiar?). The torque curve was substantially different..

These motors had no problem cooling, and OSY had no height limit. While I do not have the answer, I wonder why the baffle helped then and hurts now???

Joe

[seanp3]

I wasn't aware the 202D towers were any different than the 102 towers. The first year of the Byrne Bros OSY program we did use the 202D - provided by Wartinger. In my opinion the cooling was nearly identical as with our 302 we used in the years following. It took us a good amount of time to find a setup we could run that would cool, which was a combination of setup and prop. Race conditions always dictated how deep we needed to run.

[pav225]

Has anyone had a chance to test the new, smaller, pick up tube, yet?

[Matt Dagostino]

Yes...............the report will be to Chairman Brewster very soon!! Then details will be released here.

[pav225]

Cool. Thanks Matt.

[Hydro doc]

Inspection of height has been a routine. So, we have a new problem and maybe a new necessary inspection. If you are allowed to drill a hole deep enough to allow the cooling of the motor, it would negate the need for a ext. pickup. One estimate says the hole only needs to be a quarter inch deeper. A inspection tool could be made to fit the 321 unit.

[pav225]

Doc, maybe a solution is to just allow any type of improved cooling? Then inspection isn't an issue.

[stockc]

Pav...

Bingo!! just no touching the power head? Ken

[JBM]

Deeper? I know they tested with larger holes.